Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2012 at 11:01am

If it's a copy, known preprint or a slam-dunk obvious forgery I don't think it needs to be seen by a consultant. Consultants are not regular authenticators, like you are for Global in NASCAR, Brandon, as far as I know. But Elvis can be so difficult that I feel that ANY autograph that has even the smallest shot at being genuine should be seen by their Elvis consultant.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on September 29, 2012 at 11:36am

I agree that known pre-prints / copies can be weeded out. However, for anything that is "hand signed"  Let the true expert render the opinion. Even if the janitor knows it is a standard fake.  That's the only way to ensure absolute integrity of the process.

Even for the cases where it is a "slam-dunk" forgery. Always assume that a lawyer or judge will ask "did a recognized expert in this specific autograph render the opinion"?  It's just best to let a specified expert render the opinion. Even if everyone else feels sure it is bad. 

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2012 at 12:19pm

A court would not consider the authentication as expert opinion without the expert appearing to testify, but you make a good point.

What this situation really makes clear is that most collectors don't understand the role of an authentication company's outside experts...or that they're actually on the outside and not there day to day. That's something that needs to be made clear, as well as their authentication processes. Not just the ideal for the brochure process, but what they regularly are for each category. And they have to follow them.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on September 29, 2012 at 12:52pm

Right, the court process is very specific. Still, opinions should be made with the willingness of the authenticator ( and the ability ) to defend the finding in court if need be.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on October 9, 2012 at 5:37pm

this was one of the biggest reasons i quit working at PSA, they did not know how to delegate responsibility and make it work smoothly, i was never made aware of what came in or who certed which ones.  i can't work that way.  they have the people just no cooperate company chain of command.  This does not work.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on September 29, 2012 at 10:24am

Hello All -

I wanted to give everyone an update on this great piece.  PSA has stepped up and said they want to take a second look at it at their cost. They responded very very quick.   So I am hopeful still.

I will keep everyone posted.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 29, 2012 at 11:03am

Good job, Mark. You showed that speaking up can make a difference.

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on October 9, 2012 at 12:14pm

Ok here is the official update. 

After sending the book back to PSA.   I just got a phone call and this is what they said.  

They were sorry but it did not pass their authentication.  I asked if their Elvis expert Rich Consola was used for this authentication and she said no.  There was no need.  Their main authenticator said it was not good and did not feel the need to consult with Rich on this.  SO THEIR MAIN AUTHENTICATOR DID NOT FEEL THE NEED TO BRING IN THEIR ELVIS EXPERT ON AND ELVIS SIGNATURE.  Are you kidding me.  WHAT DID I PAY FOR!??   

I also asked as to WHY it did not pass and she has no clue and referred me to the 12 points that they say in their forum letter.  Again - WHAT DID I PAY THE $150.

UNBELIEVABLE!!  

Not a happy person right now

Mark

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Permalink Reply by Peter leone on October 9, 2012 at 1:41pm

Mark,

It's a shame that PSA/DNA does not have a true "expert" in that particular field look at the items. This is a common practice for them, one authenticator will look at it and say no good then if you resubmit it to another it will pass. This has happened to me and others I know several times. I once submitted a Yankees signed jersey that I got in person to the Cali office and got it back no good and not even 3 days after I got the jersey back they were at a show in New York and WOW all of a sudden it was good. When I asked how this was good now but was'nt 3 days ago I was told that their Baseball "expert" isn't the one that looked at it the first time. 

The other big scam they run is the "Quick Opinion" I bought an item based on the "opinion" coming back as "likely Genuine" I brought it to them at a show and they failed it. The Listing had a clear, up close photo of the item when they did the "quick opinion".

If Roger Epperson said this was authentic I would go by that and have it authenticated by JSA, The only down side with having JSA authenticate it is if you were to resell it at some point you may not get the true value of it because JSA isn't well known for authenticating Music or Celebrity items since they don't have an "expert" on staff knowledgable enough in those fields.

With the money that people pay to have item(s) authenticated by these TPA the rejection letter that is passed out should have more detail than the basic 12 points that are on all of the letters. They should give you a solid answer as to what is exactly wrong with the item. If it is the slant they should say the slant, if it's pen pressure (which is a kicker) they should say pen pressure not list all 12-15 points of what it could be and take the guess work out of it. If you paid $150 you should get a true detailed letter as to exactly what was wrong and may add a photo to you rejection letter as to what a typical example should look like.  There is was too much guessing going on... 

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Permalink Reply by Mark Roberts on October 9, 2012 at 1:59pm

I agree..  Just not sure I want to spend the $150 and send to JSA.  I would if I KNEW Roger was going to look at it.  What if they do the same thing PSA did and not even ask?...

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on October 9, 2012 at 2:07pm

Why not pay for Rogers Letter. They are accepted at every major auction house and carry heavy resell value .

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 9, 2012 at 2:14pm

Roger is supposed to look at every Elvis JSA gets in. But I agree with Anthony. Go direct to Roger. He'll charge you less and the serious collectors really trust him.

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