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Floyd Patterson Muhammad Ali autograph ( Did Patterson use Ghost Signed TTM )

I bought this Ali/Patterson signed photo a few years back . I got the ok from aligraphs , that the Ali was 100% authentic. I sold it . The person sent it to Psa for authentication , it came back as not passing . I myself sent it to Jsa, they didnt like it as well. I sent it to Psa again a few weeks ago . I got it back saying the autograph of Floyd Patterson is not authentic , the Ali was fine .

What I want to know is . Does anyone have this style signature in there collection . I was told the item was signed TTM (thru the mail ) . Ive seen quite a few authenticated TTM Patersons. This one seems diffrent. The P is off. My concern is FLoyd may have had someone else sign his mail sometimes.

Thanks Guys , for any help !!

Tags: Ali, Boxing, Floyd, Muhammad, Patterson

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Attachments: No photo uploads here

Muhammad Ali Floyd Patterson (1).JPG, 100 KB
Muhammad Ali Floyd Patterson (2).JPG, 152 KB
Muhammad Ali Floyd Patterson (3).JPG, 135 KB

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on November 14, 2012 at 6:56pm

Here is a what I believe to be a authentic Patterson graph. Notice the diffrence.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 14, 2012 at 9:00pm

Big difference. Didn't see this before I wrote my comment.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 14, 2012 at 8:59pm

I can't help you on the Patterson, but the Ali looks great to me. Without checking exemplars, I'd say roughly later 90s or so.

I don't think a forger would add a fake Patterson to a genuine Ali, do you? It makes more sense to offer them single-signed.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on November 14, 2012 at 9:49pm

I was thinking its circa 88-89 .

If I find out the Patterson is not authentic . I was gonna erase the Floyd from the photo and sell it as a single signed Ali. Its a glossy photo . So the dry erase marker or white eraser should take the autograph right off.

Yes, Exactly . I could see someone adding Ali . Not Floyd. I bought it never questioning the Ali. FLoyd is so common I just figured it was genuine.

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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on November 14, 2012 at 9:25pm

Isn't your "Patterson" missing a "t"?

I have Floyd's in person signature from 2004. It's on a shirt, so it's sloppy. But there are clearly two "t's" and both are crossed.

Also...the "F" is much like the one above with the flourish on the bottom rounding off to the left.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on November 14, 2012 at 9:43pm

With this item the type of photo paper and look of the photo . You can see its vintage. Maybe circa 80-90s . So that in mind. I figure the Patterson had to be signed at the same time as the Ali. I look up vintage Patterson signatures and I see some like mine. I was looking to see if anyone on here ever got him thru the mail in the 90's or 80's.

Look at this example