Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 13, 2023 at 1:02pm

Anyone have a opinion on this ?

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 13, 2023 at 1:57pm

Do you know what this might have possibly been cut from?

There have been at least 4 of these Washington cuts encapsulated by CAG listed on eBay recently from the same source:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175433671755?hash=item28d8a9644b:g:XiUAAOS...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/175467308167

https://www.ebay.com/itm/185702732095?hash=item2b3cbed13f%3Ag%3AsKA...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/204158413094?hash=item2f88ca2926:g:gZ8AAOS...

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Permalink Reply by David Lewis on February 13, 2023 at 4:03pm

Etienne, One source for these autographs came from the Victorians who liked to cut the autographs from letters(if I recall I read that from Charles Hamilton, I have a few of his autographed books))…..the number of historic "content" letters that were destroyed….In more recent times(the 70's and 80's) average "Farming" type letters had the signature cut off and the bulk of the letter was cut up and sold a few words at a time…As an example I purchased a sentence cut from a Lincoln letter years ago that mentioned my Sir name from another "Industry Name" who authenticates for major third party outfits.

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 13, 2023 at 6:25pm

Hi David - Here's a George V (Victoria's grandson) that survives as a cut from a longer letter:

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Permalink Reply by David Lewis on February 13, 2023 at 6:33pm

Etienne, A lot of cuts have survived the years, as you well know. 

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 13, 2023 at 5:29pm

Yeah and N8 autographs are one of the best sellers. Got a nice Bob Dylan signed record from them a few months ago. Also it has the same first 1000492 like the other 4 listed so they were all cut off from a letter and encapsulated. 

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 13, 2023 at 8:06pm

Awesome digging !

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 13, 2023 at 9:09pm

Call me a bit of a sceptic, but personally I would proceed carefully with this.  Especially now seeing how these Washingtons are appearing with quick succession on the market (4 seen here...are there others?). 

All cuts with no context or provenance that I have seen....only that they are "From Mount Vernon" on the encapsulation. Did someone cut up a single historic Washington document to sell off in pieces?  Are these unique cuts coming from a larger collection assembled over time?  I'd at least try to find out something more about these than "From Mount Vernon". 

Again, I don't mean any offense.  It just seems a rather interesting situation with such a truly historically important and valued signer as George Washington.

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Permalink Reply by David Lewis on February 13, 2023 at 3:46pm

Ty, John Reznikoff  has handled a lot of historical documents. If I were to buy a Washington today, I would trust his LOA. That being said, the person who took the autograph out of the encapsulation and mounted it….that persons expertise?

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Permalink Reply by Ty Ridenour on February 13, 2023 at 5:25pm

Yeah that's what gets me. It looks the same and I take it they did it for framing purposes. Which when you think about the CGC encapsulation is just ok. I prefer the PSA encapsulation a lot more or just the LOA

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Permalink Reply by David Lewis on February 13, 2023 at 6:18pm

TY, It is about the ink and not the organization that put it in the plastic container. That is the conundrum for anything you did not see signed in person. In this case I would go with the LOA. IMHO

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Permalink Reply by Eddy on February 13, 2023 at 6:33pm

Ty - Perhaps before purchase, you could run it by a dealer who has expertise in historical documents.  Perhaps one of the PADA dealers if you've worked with any of them before?   

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