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John Quincy Adams and Henry Cay document

Hi, I'm trying to gauge the value of this document. I may purchase it, but the owner and I have no knowledge of its value.

It's a document called "ship's papers". It's dated 1826 and signed by John Quincy Adams (President at the time) and Henry Clay (his Secretary of State).

It looks pretty tattered, but the signatures are intact. I have no doubts about its authenticity.

In this market, what would be a fair offer to the owner?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 2, 2012 at 9:23am

Post a comment on the wall in the History Group with a link to this discussion. That should get it more attention.

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Permalink Reply by john reznikoff on February 2, 2012 at 10:22am

id probably pay $500 for this

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Permalink Reply by Adam Parker on February 2, 2012 at 10:30am

posted comment on the History wall - thanks

John, the owner sent me this link where there are other JQA-signed documents being sold for $7K or so. Some up to $20K. Those are personal letters or land grants. How does this document compare to those?

http://www.historyforsale.com/html/search.asp

type in "John" and "Adams" - disregard the first item signed by John Adams of course.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 2, 2012 at 10:43am

Adam,

Sanders Autograph Price Guide lists John Quincy Adams land grants at $400-$600. Add a couple hundred for Clay and you have a good idea of the territory it's in.

History for Sale (Gallery of History) usually charges big money—perhaps because they're in Las Vegas AND try hard to sell genuine material. Pretty much everyone else in Vegas sells mostly forgeries. It is not uncommon for them to charge 5 to 10-times what similar items could be bought for elsewhere.

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Permalink Reply by john reznikoff on February 2, 2012 at 12:19pm

heres a MUCH nicer one that just sold for $840 http://rrauction.com/past_auction_item.cfm?ID=3244299

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Permalink Reply by Adam Parker on February 2, 2012 at 12:21pm

yeah, that's a nice one. amazing. same signatures and everything. thanks so much

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Permalink Reply by Adam Parker on February 3, 2012 at 6:16am

I offered $1000 cash, but I guess he thinks he can get more somewhere/somehow. Don't think he trusts internet forums as a source of appraisal. Oh well. Thanks guys.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 3, 2012 at 7:20am

You're welcome. On the bright side, you shouldn't have much of a problem finding one for $1,000.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Parker on February 3, 2012 at 7:39am

yeah, but the one he had was the ship's papers from the boat my father commanded. almost 2 hundred years later I saw the ship's papers on a wall in a restaurant. same ship, just now a new boat. the name just changes to a new boat when the other is decommissioned. he's retiring next week after 35 years in the navy. would have been the perfect gift.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on February 3, 2012 at 9:11am

It would have been a wonderful gift, and the seller is missing out on the opportunity to get much more than market value for it. If he contacts Gallery of History, they'll tell him they don't buy and send him to us. Perhaps tell him to check it out quickly and offer him a little more, good until Monday or Tuesday.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Parker on February 3, 2012 at 9:29am

I think he's done negotiating. says he'll keep it for retirement. I leave for the retirement party tomorrow morning, so I told him I'd pay cash today. It's a shame - not sure if he'll ever get someone to pay him this much again but he seems to think my offer is way too low. Oh well, time to go a nice bottle of scotch instead.