Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich on January 21, 2014 at 9:36am

I have to concur that I don't agree with the entire tone of how this played out, but, believe it or now, there are many, many people on this forum who are absolutely competent on the matters of which they are speaking.  Again, the way certain things are addressed might not always be the most eloquent, or even tactful on occasion, but the collectors and dealers on this forum do have a keen interest in protecting the hobby as much as possible.

That being said, some adopt a more ruthless, less forgiving tone for anyone seen as a seller of forgeries.  Given their level of fanhood and/or own interest in protecting the value of their own investments in authentic material, this is understandable.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on January 21, 2014 at 10:01am

I completely understand and well said. I have no issue with people voicing their concerns about possibly fake memorabilia being sold as authentic. I have my own concerns as well. I just felt the need to defend good people just trying to do their job.

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Permalink Reply by Rich on January 21, 2014 at 10:46am

In all fairness, it's hard to explain to newer members who knows what areas, what their background is and to what extent they have specific knowledge.  They don't really hand out many legitimate certifications for this stuff (and those who say they have them are often the biggest frauds!).  It really comes down to what your most acute interests are, how long you've been a fan or collector and how cautious you are. 

On this site, you'll see more criticism of forgeries and forgery sellers than praise for authentic items and top-notch collectors and sellers simply because, sadly, that's what the landscape looks like - there are infinitely more forgeries than authentic items.

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Permalink Reply by wascher on January 21, 2014 at 9:41am

Mike,

Would you call this a truthful statement?  (This is from your friends auction site)   "We evaluate every piece for authenticity, condition, demand and our ability to liquidate. "

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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on January 21, 2014 at 10:14am

Without getting into another argument, about which I likely agree with you, to ask any business like an auction house to be an expert or to be able to authenticate every piece they auction is simply unrealistic. They do the best they can. I've seen coins from the 1500's, artifacts from around the world, Civil War, Revolutionary War items, you name it auctioned off at McManus. Items that are incredibly difficult to authenticate, even with an expert. To expect everyone there to be an expert in every item they auction just isn't reality. At that point, it falls to you and I to determine whether we believe it's real or not.

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Permalink Reply by David S on January 21, 2014 at 10:24am

You said that McManus asked you to call PSA to find out how much it would be to come look at everything...because you have experience with sports memorabilia.  So you obviously are acquaintences with the guy and the auction house...you also said you previewed all the items....and you also said you would never buy any of the Morales stuff..... When you looked at everything, why didn't you tell McManus that the Chris Morales stuff is garbage???  And blatant forgeries?   And, if you did...why is he continuing to sell them?

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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on January 21, 2014 at 10:39am

I'm no expert. I have my opinions, and I told him what I thought. That doesn't make me right though. I don't have a dog in this fight, so to speak. I'm just a customer he asked for an opinion. He makes his own decisions and he believes the items to be authentic.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 21, 2014 at 11:16am

I doubt if he believes they are authentic. It is in his best interest from a financial standpoint to stand behind them and he certainly does not have to believe anyone on this forum but if he consults an independent authenticator he will find they are garbage.

He doesn't want to find that out for sure because then he would have to cancel the auction and thus lose a lot of comission dollars.

As I stated in a earlier post, he can get online opinions very cheaply that would confirm whether he is correct in his assessment or not.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Miller on January 21, 2014 at 12:28pm

I can't really speak for him as to what he believes. I probably should have said "apparently he believes" in my prior post. Either way, the auction is scheduled for the 25th, and that's only 4 days away. I doubt there would be enough time to send a handful of items for authentication now anyway. I do know that he was absolutely genuine in wanting to have some of the items authenticated through PSA/DNA, but the pricing was prohibitive. That's simply a lot of money to outlay in order to validate some items that may or may not prove to be authentic, and then may or may not even sell.

Permalink Reply by Chris David on January 21, 2014 at 11:19am

Based on what does he believe they are authentic? What he is really doing is saying I dont care just give me a commision and on to the next lot of goods. He knows full well that his market is not the people here or real collectors with even a cursory knowledge of what to look for in authentic autographs. His market is the people who get caught up in the excitement of these auctions. Find it funny that he his basically saying he is not a expert in his own chosen line of work. Funny business model. I for one believe it is up to me and others on this board to educate others that these items are not genuine items and will continue to do that anyway I can.

Patrick McManus

Forgeries 

Fraudulent Items Henderson Nevada 

Auction House Scam Forged Autographs

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Permalink Reply by Randy on January 21, 2014 at 11:26am

He claims to believe they are authentic because he has a forensic document examiner who certified them as authentic.

We all know that the authenticator in question is not highly thought of in the autograph world but that is what he is using as his rationale.

He is doing the same thing Coach's Corner has done and got away with for years.

Permalink Reply by Chris David on January 21, 2014 at 1:07pm

He could have got the $125,000 Joe Jackson forgery PSA Dna. If it was certified my guess is he would have a close to a half million dollar profit on that one. Of course he would not get the lower end items looked at which would be cost prohibitive. If he truly believed they were authentic he would have at least got the high end items looked at.

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