Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 4, 2012 at 7:23am

They're not missing what you made a issue, too: 

"Besides the OBVIOUS ethical question of JSA "authenticating" something like this..."

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on December 4, 2012 at 8:54am

Eh, that's still not it. I don't recall DB ever standing up for the Juliens items. Nor have I.

Sadly, conspiracy theories don't affect the fact that there are more than a few ways to "skin a cat". Considering that the cat got skinned before much thought went into the presented argument, not much happened in the way of "stopping the auction".

Now the group and their "warrior hero" ( come on, that was funny ). Are now having to chase these autographs around the planet. It would have been much easier to have won the battle pre-auction. if stopping the auction was the battle, then it wasn't accomplished. Because of the emotional responses ( and maybe the personal history of people involved ) things seemed to have fallen apart . If this thread had an agenda outside of stopping the auction. Then it may have been a success.

Why do you keep bringing Steve Sipes name into this? From everything I have read, he didn't have anything to do with the items (thankfully, as it would be a lot to answer for ).

Again, my previous statement remains the same. To me, the estate and it's involvement or lack thereof is an important angle to inspect. Maybe they supported it, I don't know. If so, why? I promise it's not my fault either way.

Chris, you of all people are smart enough to ask these questions on your own.

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Permalink Reply by TeamMichael777 on December 4, 2012 at 9:02am

Brandon you need to stop, there are no hero's here, we are a "Team" notice "TeamMichael" please stop distracting this discussion! You are annoying,

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on December 4, 2012 at 12:54pm

For going without sleep, printing flyers and painting banners.
For your astute Intelligence.
For all the hours of research and organization of the Team.
For maintaining through Debbie Jackson's verbal and physical aggression, Darren's little henchmen security guards' threats, and a Bush employed pest in your face all day...

For all of that and infinite reasons beyond.  I wish to honor our Team Leader.  A rare individual in today's World, someone who Walks the Walk.  A true justice fighter against realized social injustice.

A TRUE WARRIOR HERO.

I'm positive I speak for every contributor and advocate of TeamMichael when I say, Thank you and all our LOVE always, T.

Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on December 4, 2012 at 9:15am

Again I find your questions valid and your right on the money as far as saying "to me, the estate and it's involvement or lack thereof is important".  If you only knew :)  But you are correct in your thought process.

I don't think it's fallen apart though, the fact that someone now spotted an item that most likely (in my mind without a doubt) was produced after MJ died, is just one of the little blips that will start hitting the radar.  It was less than 24 hrs after the auction that-that item was spotted thanks to Justin.

As for stopping the auction --- MJ himself had to go to court to get his own items out of Julien's hands in the past.  http://teammichaeljackson.com/archives/6717

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on December 4, 2012 at 9:16am

Taaj, replace your bullhorn with your thinking cap. Maybe I'm mistaken, maybe there are issues between this sect of MJ fans ( those who stand-up to these situations as demonstrated here ) And the estate. Maybe that is the wedge.

It goes beyond proving your case against the autographs ( which certain fans did more effectively than the experts in this case ).

It makes me wonder how much of the fight was truly about the signatures ( for some not all involved ). You see, I represent a non-fan who is "looking-in". Because of the separation, I have no agenda.

It allows me to see the mixture of people who care about the questioned signatures, and those that only wanted the items ( even if autographed by whomever ) for a "museum". It left a natural taste in my mouth of confusion. One side was saying " the items are worthless because of fake autographs", while others said "these items are worth too much (even if ransacked with fake signatures or not ) not to be in a museum.

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Permalink Reply by Helen on December 4, 2012 at 9:57am

I wish you wouldn't use language like "sect". And yes, there are many issues here, the whole MJ/estate/family situation is one giant unholy MESS.

But there is no confusion about what the stakes were here. Many fans were always against the sale of these clothes. The best case scenario is that MLB, whom we considered a loyal friend of Michael's is just another one cashing in by going against Michael's own wishes and selling off the clothes.

In the best case scenario those clothes were his to sell and we may be disappointed and angry but there was not much we could do about it, it was a moral question.

But selling forged autographs is a crime. It's an additional, seperate issue that arose from this auction.

The clothes themselves *are* worth too much in terms of MJ history not to be in a museum, defaced or not. But of course from a collector's standpoint they have lost much of their value as an investment because they have been defaced by fake signatures.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 4, 2012 at 10:32am

Michael Jackson fans and autograph collectors worldwide owe a debt of gratitude to these fanatical fans. We never would have heard about this auction otherwise until the autographs started trickling back into the marketplace. Now at least there's a record of how hard everyone tried to get through to Julien's to stop the auction.

Permalink Reply by TeamMichael777 on December 4, 2012 at 6:22pm

I understand Brandon, please accept my apologies

Permalink Reply by Michelle on December 4, 2012 at 8:52am

Brandon, the fans contacted the Estate in a very spirited campaign collecting almost 1000 signatures demanding that the auction items (the medical records auction) be withheld. The various MJ fan communities do contact the estate when they see something wrong, just as we have for these alleged signatures.

The executor of the Estate, John Branca wrote the forward in Michael Lee Bush's book, so the Estate should have had a first hand look at the items in the book and in the catalog before we as fans were able to peruse it and see the signatures on the items. Whether the Estate believes the signaures are that of Michael Jackson or just decided to turn a blind eye is unknown to me.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on December 4, 2012 at 9:01am

Thank you for posting this, was just about to respond to Brandon myself. 

If I remember correctly the Estate also spoke up of the articles in the Bush auction to someone in an email reply.  I believe it was mentioned that they had no control over items that were "gifted" from MJ himself (Michael Bush stated they were gifted to him), but that Bush did pull some of the items and gave them to the Estate - and if I also remember correctly some of the items went to the kids (items they wanted).  Correct me if I'm wrong whomever it was that rec'd the letter from the estate.  

And I don't know all the folks in here with authenticating issues (who's against who lol) but I don't find Brandon's questions invalid.  He obviously is not a part of the MJ fan community and doesn't know what is going on behind the scenes :)  Trust me Brandon, when the fans speak in volumes, the Estate looks into things. 

This Bush signature thing is going to be a bit different in proving though..... since Triumph is now John Branca run/Estate owned.  Will he say the same?  That the cutouts were printed after MJ's death?  He's the one that applied for the re-licensing.  Honestly, he is the key to answering that question.  Problem is-- nobody trusts him either.

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Permalink Reply by Michelle on December 4, 2012 at 9:29am

IMO, I think Bravado, a third party would be more trustworthy than Branca. I hope they speak up.

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