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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 18, 2013 at 5:05pm

If you let her know, also ask her when she finished the sketch that he claims to have had signed on the 25th.  I just have this weird feeling the thing wasn't done until after MJ was gone. 

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 18, 2013 at 6:20pm

Unbelievable. I love the way DeArmond renders Michael in HER illustrations.  I'd like to own some of these, minus the forged chicken scratch.  Helen, you make a good point about contacting her regarding her work being fraudulently attributed, forged upon and sold.  Something makes me think she is probably aware and has been intimidated into silence.

Am I the only one who finds this reminicent of Deborah Morales ripping off Carson Grier - and Darren Julien cashing in on that "situation" in the T&B and Holyfield sell offs.  All the corrupt Frauds together in one cesspool.  With all of their backdoor deals.  Bush and Morales need to meet up at the Scam "Artists" Convention.  And they've all found a way to use Michael Jackson to perpetrate their money grubbing, false glory hogging frauds (theft).

Check it out:

MICHAEL JACKSON ICONOGRAPH OF "BAD" JACKET  http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/77/lot/33830/

EVANDER HOYLFIELD ICONOGRAPH  http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/75/lot/33639/


The Real Artist whose signature style was Stolen/ Forged:

http://carsongrier.tumblr.com/tagged/michael-jackson

http://carsongrier.tumblr.com/tagged/scam

http://carsongrier.tumblr.com/

http://www.change.org/petitions/deborah-morales-at-iconomy-com-pain...

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 18, 2013 at 10:04pm

I totally forgot about the Morales thing.  And yes, absolutely.  I missed her version of the BAD BAD BAD coat (saw it but it didn't jog my memory about the forged style from Carson).

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 19, 2013 at 11:26am

Carson is a perfectionist, like MJ. The metal surfaces of his works have amazing textures, reflective spiral luminosity.  And he actually hand paints his subject matter onto the metal.. you know, like an ARTIST.

Morales' scam "art" is a cheap knock off version of Grier's.  The metal is not buffed to perfection as is his, no elegant spiral textures of movement.  Whoever she's getting to buff the metal can not replicate Carson's polishing technique.  Her metal looks "flat", cheap, uninspired and uncreative.  And as she is NO artist other than a con artist, she just slaps on a so-called "inlay" graphic from a digital file (she got someone to Photoshop for her).  She stole someone else's vision, creation and unique concept.  Cheapened, exploited and destroyed it, for profit and false acclaim.  Imagine that.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 19, 2013 at 8:37am

I found Dennis' version of the same Dangerous outfit I put up earlier (sorry if repeating the photo, because the replies sometimes end up on a diff page, I'm including it again).  Top is the illustrators sketch (Bush claimed Dennis drew), below that Dennis' version.  I know this doesn't show forgeries on signatures, but it does show Bush stating things are sketched (or signed or both) by specific people, and they aren't at all.

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 17, 2013 at 11:10am

Here's my take on Darren's list he gave in the Q&A of "exact samples" of supposed same style "MJ sigs" he's sold previously:
 
Feeble attempt at deflection meant to confuse the masses.

First :  Darren copied and pasted the research done on the Autograph Magazine Live thread, showing listings of multitudes of a second discovered Thriller jacket style of unfamiliar (forged) MJ sigs sold by Julien’s (in previous auctions and in lesser quantities in the T&B sale).  

Second:  Julien gives that list, then throws in a handful of the first discovered style of mass produced MJ sig forgeries (like the majority of the T&B sale signatures).  

Third:  He then includes some examples he’s sold with questionable (fake) “MJ signatures” which match neither of the two clearly recognizable Bush-Tompkins style forgeries.  Still MORE different forgery examples he's sold.

Fourth:  He mixes in a handful of actual AUTHENTIC Michael Jackson signatures (I count 5-7) sold in their previous auctions as if we wouldn’t see the difference and as if they could somehow miraculously pass off the fakes,, throwing themselves a Hail Mary pass.

Jumbling them all in together.  The Fraud Game of smoke and mirrors.  Obviously trying to mix things up and have people less studied in Michael Jackson’s signature be confused by the different styles.  Well.  He may have sold some actual legit MJ sigs along the way (he has).  And he may have sold lesser quantities of various differing fake MJ signature styles (he has, including secretarials and autopens)  …. BUT he's sold only two noticeably unauthentic MJ signature styles in MASSIVE QUANTITIES - both of which can be traced to Bush-Tompkins consignment.  The sheer quantity of them does them in at every turn.  

Furthermore, having one’s crimes go unnoticed for a given period of time does nothing to legalize or legitimize the criminal acts once observed and uncovered. Regardless of how many “exact samples” of fraudulently signed Michael Jackson items Darren Julien has chosen to sell off through his propped up Beverly Hills auction house, these “samples” remain just as counterfeit as the day they were forged and sold.  A forgery is a forgery is a forgery.

So Julien gave us his “list".  A list in which he admits that he's sold approximately seventy (70) additional mass produced, unfamiliar, fraudulent MJ signed items to an unsuspecting worldwide public.  We’ll take that answer, won't we?

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Permalink Reply by TeamMichael777 on January 17, 2013 at 3:27pm

Wendy, honey it may be a good idea to copy paste all this into twitlonger, you know we have lots of followers who would be very interested in this, do it hun, then i will rt, Love you Doll,

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 17, 2013 at 6:59pm

Okay, just checking in here now. I'll copy and paste into a twitlonger right now. :)

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 21, 2013 at 12:03pm

Hi everyone,

I just added a thread entitled:  Other Questionable Michael Jackson Signatures & Items Sold by Julien's to the Michael Jackson Autographs and Memorabilia group.  Here:  http://live.autographmagazine.com/group/michael-jackson-autographs-...

It's an extension of the postings we started here, with some additions, of any other discovered questionable Michael Jackson items/examples sold by Julien's auction other than from the December 2nd, 2012 Tompkins-Bush sale.  

Examples such as secretarial, autopen, letterpress, additional unfamiliar, unknown, questionable signature style forgeries (other than the two T&B styles), etc...

Please add anything related you find to the discussion.  Thanks :)

p.s. - phew! It took me awhile to upload it all... browsers kept crashing O.o  ...had to do it in 5 separate postings. I think I got it all though :)

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on January 21, 2013 at 3:08pm

The first appearance of the Tompkins and Bush style signature forgeries, the style found in the majority of the Dec. 2, 2012 Julien's catalog/ sold items (not the Thriller jacket style)....

The "scribbled chicken scratch" style.  Examples of this style signature appear on items sold prior to the December 2nd sell off.  In the Julien's auction, Sports Legends and Music Icons - held on June 23, 2012.

 
Here they are:

Juliens auction  -  Sports Legends and Music Icons  -  June 23, 2012  -

Lot 903  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED ROBERTO CAVALLI JACKET.  Sold for $24,320.   

"A black leather Roberto Cavalli jacket with yellow silk stripes, signed in silver marker on the left sleeve "Love Michael Jackson." No size present."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28851/

Lot 841  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED PROMOTIONAL THRILLER JACKET.  Sold for $1,024.  

"A silver nylon CBS Records Michael Jackson Thriller jacket, signed on the back in black marker "Love Michael Jackson." Zips at the front, label reads "Aristo Jac by Hilton." Size extra large"

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28789

Lot 850  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED FEDORA.  Sold for $4,687.50.  

"A white "Smooth Criminal" style felt fedora with black grosgrain ribbon hat band, signed on the brim underside in red "Love Michael Jackson." The interior hat band has "Michael Jackson" stamped in gold ink. Size medium."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28798

Lot 862  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED FEDORA.  Sold for $7,040.  

"A black felt fedora with black grosgrain ribbon hat band, signed on the brim underside in silver marker "All My Love Michael Jackson 1998." The interior hat band has "Michael Jackson" stamped in gold ink. Size large."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28811

Lot 867  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED T-SHIRT.  Sold for $1,152.

"A white Michael Jackson Australian Tour 1987 T-shirt, signed on the front "Love Michael Jackson." Made by Double Swan. Size XL."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28815

Lot 879 - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED SWEATSHIRT.  Sold for $640.

"A grey pullover sweatshirt signed on the front in black marker "Love Michael Jackson." The sweater has MJJ Productions logo on the front and "Bad Tour '88" on the left sleeve."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28827

Lot 894  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED BUBBLES TOY.  Sold for $4,480.

"A Bubbles the chimp plush toy signed by Michael Jackson. The toy, in its original packaging, is signed "Love Michael Jackson" in red on the toy's captain's cap. Accompanied by a "Bubbles Story" cassette tape. The Michael's Pets line of toys was introduced in 1987.  18 by 8 by 7 1/2 inches"

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28842

Lot 898  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED DENIM JACKET.  Sold for $1,024.

"A light blue denim Levi's jacket signed by Michael Jackson. "Neverland" is embroidered across the back yoke of the jacket, with a painted image of Peter Pan and Jackson signature in silver over the image of Peter Pan. Prong set rhinestones, stars, and faux gems begin at right shoulder and spread across the back of the jacket."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28846

Lot 915  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED SUPER BOWL SEAT CUSHION.  Sold for $768.

"A seat cushion from Super Bowl XXVII on Sunday, January, 31, 1993, at the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, California, signed in black marker "Love Michael Jackson 1998 000 [hand drawn arrow]." Jackson was the sole halftime show performer for that year.  13 3/4 by 13 3/4 inches."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28863

Lot 921  - MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED ARMBAND.  Sold for $1,408.

"A white elastic compression armband signed in black marker "Love Michael Jackson." Black trim with a silver tone military style badge with central red star and black accents."

http://www.julienslive.com/view-auctions/catalog/id/72/lot/28869

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Permalink Reply by Helen on January 21, 2013 at 3:49pm

Ah, that late? Interesting! I assumed it started right back in 2009, but up to then the suspect signatures are all of the neater "Thriller" jacket type?

I'm ashamed I even have to ask. Amazing research work, Wendy, MJFan 1965 and TeamMJ777. You are awesome.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on January 21, 2013 at 4:25pm

Yes my study came up with the same result as Wendy's listed above.  I did one a few weeks ago just so I could figure out when the dbl L started, and when the Bush style showed up.  This was my study below.  (note I've added when Dennis passed away--the dbl L's were filtering through the auctions while he was alive for a 1 yr and 2 months).  I do not have any of the "odd" sigs in this study, only Dbl L/Thriller style and Bush style.

 

DBL L's AND BUSH/TOMPKINS STYLE SIGNATURES

Nov 21, 2009 Music Icons

No Dbl L or Bush Auction style

June 24/25, 2010 Summer Sale 2010 - Music Icons

No Dbl L or Bush Auction style.

Oct 8, 2010 Legends

Lot 332 Double L Military Blues

Lot 338 Double L Victory Tour Jumpsuit

Lot 350 Double L Record Player

Lot 367 Double L Beach Towel

Lot 370 Double L Sweatshirt

Lot 371 Double L Belt with signed pic

Lot 385 Double L Hat

Lot 388 Double L Jam Pic signed, Jam shirt

Lot 389 Double L Basketball

Lot 397 Double L Conductor Hat

Lot 407 Double L MJ & Friend Memorabilia

Lot 413 Double L Signed Hat

Lot 416 Double L Hat

Lot 425 Double L Shoes

Dec 3, 2010 Icons and Idols #6

Lot 532 Double L Green basketball shirt

Lot 548 Double L Victory tour suit

Lot 551 Double L Mickey Tee

Lot 569 Double L Red Suede

Lot 578 Double L Time Mag

Lot 587 Double L Bubbles Outfit

Lot 589 Double L Bad Poster

Lot 594 Double L Shoes

Lot 595 Double L Burgundy Jacket

Lot 600 Double L Tour Poster

Lot 602 Double L History Tour Mag

Lot 605 Double L History Tour Poster

Lot 608 Double L History Tour Poster

Lot 610 Double L History Tour Mag cutout

Lot 611 Double L Dangerous Tour item

Lot 614 Double L Signed Banner

Lot 615 Double L Remember the time dancer costume

Lot 616 Double L Poster

Lot 631 Double L Flag

Lot 634 Double L Rayban Case w/glasses

Lot 635 Double L MJ & Friends Poster

Lot 635A Double L Football

Lot 635B Double L Superbowl Cushion

Lot 635C Double L Superbowl Coat

Lot 638 Double L Neverland Shirt

Lot 641 Double L Neverland Balloon

Lot 650A Double L Signed Photo Shoot

Lot 650B Double L Gold Fencing sig

Lot 658A Double L 1986 Press Confer. Jacket

Slash / Rock N Roll 3/26/2011

Nothing. Several MJ lots but nothing Double L, or Bush auction styled

Music Icons 6/26/2011

Lot 493 Double L Thriller Coat

Lot 514 Double L Signed Poster

Lot 526 Double L Signed Poster

Lot 552 Double L Worn Shoes

Lot 555 Double L Hat

Lot 566 Double L Hat

Lot 574 Double L Poster

Lot 575 Double L Poster

Legends 10/21/2011

Lot 425 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON STAGE WORN DESTINY TOUR COSTUME

Lot 426 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED SIMPSONS JACKET

Lot 427 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLE

Lot 429 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON VICTORY TOUR STAGE WORN ENSEMBLE

Lot 430 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON STAGE WORN JACKET

Lot 449 Dbl L style BUBBLES LA GEAR JACKET

Lot 451 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON WORN WESTERN SHIRT

Lot 477 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON WORN SATIN JACKET

Lot 494 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED HAT

Icons & Idols Hollywood 12/01/2011

No Dbl L or Bush styles

Icons Idols Rock N Roll & Sports 12/03/2011

Lot 1457 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED WIZ JACKET

Lot 1528 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON REHEARSAL WORN WHITE FEDORA

Lot 1540 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED BAD FLAG

Lot 1574 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON WORN FEDORA

Lot 1610 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED HARRODS BOXER SHORTS

Lot 1673 Dbl L style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED T-SHIRT

Lot 1699 traced ? MICHAEL JACKSON WORN AND SIGNED SHIRT

*****Dennis Tompkins dies Dec 3, 2011 (Michael Bush's business partner)*****

100 North Carolwood Dr 12/17/2011

No Dbl L or Bush Style

 

Hollywood Legends 3/31/2012

No Dbl L or Bush Styles

Sports Legends and Music Icons 06/23/2012  (BUSH STYLE SIGS FIRST TIME!!)

Lot 841 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED PROMOTIONAL THRILLER JACKET

Lot 850 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED FEDORA

Lot 862 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED FEDORA

Lot 867 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED T-SHIRT

Lot 879 BUSH STYLE  MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED SWEATSHIRT

Lot 894 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED BUBBLES TOY

Lot 898 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED DENIM JACKET

Lot 903 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED ROBERTO CAVALLI JACKET

Lot 915 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED SUPER BOWL SEAT CUSHION

Lot 921 BUSH STYLE MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED ARMBAND

Icons & Idols 11/09/2012

No Dbl L's or Bush Styles

Icons & Idols 12/01/2012 12/02/2012

Lot 521 Dbl L Style MICHAEL JACKSON SIGNED HARRODS BOXER SHORTS

(this was a relisted item, sold previous as lot # 1610 on 12/3/2011)

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