Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 5, 2012 at 10:37am

I hate to say it, Mike, but that jacket concerns me. You may be right, tho.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on December 5, 2012 at 11:11am

That is fine and I respect your concerns and except you questions. You have been much more then fair with me recently.

This is why I decided to join AML, for fair and civil discussions. There are many other autograph authenticators that I think should join into discussions with and open mind. That is a big part of correcting and minding this business.

Can you explain your concerns? I also would except other opinions on this signature.

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Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on December 5, 2012 at 11:26am

whats the story behind the coat, I'm interested in hearing :) 

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on December 6, 2012 at 1:18pm

This is the David Sonnet Beat It jacket, isn't it?

I made this from the original auction house video (jacket's at the end):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4ItctDPxWE

I agree with Steve though, doesn't look quite right, especially the "ichael Jackson". The M and the "Love" look pretty good...

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Permalink Reply by Charlotte Stanley on December 6, 2012 at 1:54pm

I wonder if he signed the jacket while the kid was wearing it? It might look a little funny then, but it seems where it is signed that it would have been taken of to sign it. If thats the case I think it should look a little better than it does. The parents of the boy would surely know if this was the Jacket.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 6, 2012 at 2:24pm

Charlotte,

Thanks for posting the video. I never even considered that the jacket might have been signed while a kid was wearing it. And one in a wheel chair at that who couldn't control his body movements well.

While there doesn't appear to be any video or images of MJ signing the jacket, the likelihood he would have had to sign it while the boy was wearing it puts this autograph in a whole new light. Under those circumstances, I think it's close enough that if the people and story check out, and the pros think the autograph is within reason all things considered, I'll go with the pros.

Permalink Reply by Michael Frost on December 6, 2012 at 5:41pm

Charlotte and Wendy,

Great job of detective work. I am still impressed. There is much more to the story of the "Beat It" Jacket including How it ended up being sold for over $100,000.

I was waiting for much more comments and observation before giving some of the details of this authentic hand signed jacket.

I have always found the best autograph authenticators or the people with the "EYE" are the collectors or authenticators like Roger that have actual been obtaining in-person autographs. When you are in the streets obtaining autographs many factors come into place. The signer could be walking, entering a vehicle, talking to others, being pushed by security, pens not working properly, fans shoving you and your item as it is being signed, just to name a few factors of in-person autographs.

This is why having strong reference library of known 100% authentic autographs exemplars would be the 1st key to being an autograph authenticator. The exemplars should be kept with notes of the year and place the item was signed. Also when examining autographs it really helps when possible if you try to match a photo with another photo, a guitar with another guitar, and a jacket with a jacket.

Yes this jacket belonged to David Sonnet and yes it was signed while the young badly crippled beautiful boy sat in his wheelchair. I was the first person involved with the Sonnet family and I spent much time and heard stories and watched films that showed their love of their boy David, and David's Love for Michael Jackson.

His room was dedicated to Michael Jackson and his songs and pictures help David live his short rough life with a little pleasure.

There is much more to the story of the Jacket but I was the first to examine, investigate and authenticated the jacket for the Sonnets. I then recommended having it also dual authenticated by PSA/DNA or JSA. I was acting as an agent and adviser to Sonnet family. I was not looking to make any money, I was trying to help them obtain as much money as possible to help them with hospital bills and a special bench that Debbie Sonnet wanted to put at her son's grave site. I help them receive about $10,000 for this signed Michael Jackson Model "Beat It" jacket. I thought that I did well for the Sonnet's and they were very thankful. The Jacket then was consigned to a 2nd auction by the person who purchased it for $10,000 and the same jacket sold for over $100,000 without anything going to Sonnet's.

According to Debbie Sonnet, David's mother, Michael Jackson's music did help pull him out of a coma. His recovery room was decorated with numerous Jackson photos and his music was played at all times.

David Sonnet passed away July 26, 2004.
I still will explain more about the jacket and the authentication of the autograph on this jacket after some comments.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on December 6, 2012 at 7:20pm

Mike, stand behind your opinions...Stop worrying about what Epperson or PSA thinks.

Permalink Reply by MJ-fan-1965 on December 7, 2012 at 2:30am

I can't reply to MF because of how deep the threads go, so I'll use Wendy's.  Thanks for posting this MF  - love it.  :)  Especially after the other thread on David.   Didn't they auction off some other items to raise money for a young lady who also had a brain injury/disease?  

For some reason I didn't get any of these emails in my regular email box, not sure why, I'm still "following" this thread.  Anyone else having problems not getting notices?  

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 5, 2012 at 2:44pm

Sure Mike.

I appreciate your attitude. I'll start with "Love":

• The top loop of the "L" comes to a point at the right, and starts near the top of the L, not about half way down like MJ L normally starts, whether it loops at the top or not. The bottom loop is more horizontal than vertical and doesn't dip below the baseline like most.
• MJ's "o" normally meets at beginning and the end, and pretty much at 12:00. The end of this o ends below its beginning and extends further to the left.
• The "v" is too undersized and starts to tilt to the left, sort of like it's starting a baseline curve.
• The top of the "e" starts at the baseline of the L and o and its loop is too small in proportion to the rest of the letter.

Michael Jackson's name:

• I don't think the name is signed with the free and easy flair MJ has. It's too jagged.
• The "c" of Michael is missing between the i and h. Not even a nub.
• I don't recall seeing an "h" jagged like that. They're generally well formed if they're there at all.
• The "a" and "e" tilt too much to the left.
• The "L" on yours is mostly to the left of the "J" instead of to the right, and it drops down steeply instead of having a fairly circular, sweeping loop. Plus the loop is generally larger.
• Then there's the loop of the "n" of course. If it's there, it's generally thinner and the sides of the loop are more parallel. 

I'm glad you asked me to break down what I saw. I'm so used to looking at autographs as a whole instead of analyzing them bit by bit.

What are your thoughts, Mike?

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on December 6, 2012 at 2:22pm

Michael, I just want to say that I'm NOT the expert here and MJ really could have made the N like that.. it is still not as rounded, nor awkward in formation as those Bush related sigs.

As for the L in Michael, here is an MJ signature from when he was a teenager. The Michael L looks very similar to the jacket, to me.

I'll add a few more L's like this in a minute.

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Permalink Reply by Wendy Christine on December 6, 2012 at 2:47pm

Some more Michael autographs with the similar L in Michael to the Beat It jacket - though most of these are more sweeping as Steve mentioned.  Seems the L became more sweeping over time, the older MJ was when he signed.

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