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Authenticity is Everything
PSA/DNA Certified Items - Right or Wrong
Not being a dealer or auctioneer I am perfectly suited to referee this discussion if need be. This section is mostly for Items that PSA/DNA has certified that in an opinion of authenticators has missed the mark (AND NOT as far as they know been corrected) along with any other items of significance.
In some cases the certification provided might be a simple rejection while in other cases it's certifying it as authentic when it may be far from it.
The thread is not about the good, the bad or ugly of 3rd parties as there is already an excellent thread in the forum on this started by R&R's Bobby Livington that everyone should follow. That thread alone has produced three disccusions on Farrah Fawcett, Elvis, and now this.
Hopefully, AM members will follow this thread (I am sure the fraudsters & propaganda machines will) and point others to it - Perhaps, the owners of the item that is cited. Those owners can then deal with the authentication firm or sellers and report back their journey.
Since I don't expect the PSA/DNAs of the world to come online and defend/refute (althugh the have an open invitation) the postings then be advised this is not a thread to speculate, accuse, or otherwise besmirch what is or what isn't being done.
So 'nuff said and on with the items. To keep discussions focused and contained - Each Item contributors need to stay in the realm of that item so commentary is not all over the place.
remember if you post an item denote the PSA/DNA number on their sticker... One, if they choose can also validate the item's number on the PSA/DNAs database to see if it is in fact a product of PSA/DNA as we have heard that the fraudsters are/have created bogus ones and report your findings here.
Tags: certification, certifications, errors, forgeries, psa, psa/dna
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on
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Seems like Skarkey forgot a letter in his signature! Jeffries looks OK, Ezzard Charles is whacko, but who'd want to forge him, anyway?
But I'm not boxing expert - defer to Travis.
DB (Dung Beetle)
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PS - Bobby - Does that make us 4th Party Authenticators?
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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Good one Mr. Bill - it if weren't for the dung beetles think of all the "chit" we would be in....
It's commendable of BL to post the items that that he has a degree of confidence in but not so pompous to feel mistakes can't be made. We have often battered these 3rd parties with their mistakes but seldomly give credit when they are right.
Or we scoop one from an auction house that wasn't quite accurate so Kudos to BL on a preemptive strike.
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Tony, you might want to attach the 3 your have that were rejected by PSA & JSA for compare and contrast purposed as I would think that if the attached one is authentic as depicted in the LOA it doesn't necessarily follow that the 3 you have are as well.
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Tony - do you mean that the one you attached was "sent by someone after yours" and was stickered but yours was returned and identified as a probable secretarial (and that one is not attached)?
or- are you saying the attached one which is yours was originally rejected as a secretaril but when you resubmitted it, it passed. If so, I then don't understand the 2nd sentence.
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on
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Yeah it was sent by someone else . I am done posting on this blog , I thought it was gonna be a great blog and very helpful to some people. But it turned negative real quick .
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There is always going to a shred of negativity regardless but we will try to keep it in check. However, deleting your original posts doesn't help.
to each their own but if your questions were bonafide and accurate then I would encourage you to repost them under my inquiries with your expanded explanations
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Travis, if you don't want to move forward that is your choice but as I have indicated at the start we aren't going to have a contest with PSA/DNA because they don't want to respond to but a handful of errors and start a discussion with people who don't own the items.
My take is BL is putting up some that he has complete confidence in but is still willing to test that theory since others have been quick to point out when there may be an error on a handful.
I also believe Anthony has a simple answer to the Chuvalo authenticated as Chavez error which seems plausible even if it can't be validated but it certainly seems fixable by whoever owns it and that presumes the person wasn't thinking of buying a Chuvalo but rather a Chavez as that would present a complication.
I haven't found the Liston & Louis yet in the other thread but I am only on page 32 and if the PSA/DNA number is not ledgible then we need an update as without it they won't make this thread for long.
The purpose of this thread is to alert collectors of known errors; right or wrong rather than continue a debate that we don't have any leverage with other than making noise, unfounded accusations and speculative numbers of many, some, 1 in a million, 1 in 120 and so on.
Again your welcome to participate in this thread as it is defined in the opening. If anyone can't then don't post otherwise I will have Steve remove the posting (even i concur with the points made already in a different thread)
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Thanks Travis - do you recall what auction month that was in or listing ID number?
Mr. Bill , BL has on more than one occassion offered that service and if this is indeed bogus I am sure he would do so again but it's always good to ask.
It was listed and it already had an LOA? that's unusual I think as usually that comes after the sale if someone opts to go forward.
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So why doesn't the PR guy at R&R just look at the records, find the buyer, give him back his money, and avoid further collateral damage?
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he will be but i suspect he is in the midst of an ongoing auction. BTW, didn't we go over this in the 3rd party thread already? I just went back to the beginning and notice that all posts related to Joe Louis in that time frame (seems posted by Travis) are now gone. We are so quick to jump on someone but then delete the posts with the information.
The same goes for the Liston one's that were also posted by Travis that were later referenced by Mark and Bjarne who identified one cut signature of Liston that was rejected by PSA/DNA and then R&R.
I am starting to wonder if some people just want to continuously throw out hand grenades whenever it suits them. As far as the Liston is concerned they made the call - right or wrong and although it doesn't have a sticker could have been helpful to this thread, perhaps.
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Travis do you happen to have the jpg on the 4x3 card?. I am going to try and do the following justice but while we await the picture of the item cited above here are some listions that are believed to be authentic as originally posted by Mark Ogren (correct me if I got any of them wrong) starting with the non authentic article;
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This cut signature was rejected by PSA/DNA and returned to the owner (Bjarne) by R&R. Bjarne explained, "I bought it about 15 years ago together with some other autographs from a person that was collecting autographs in Sweden in the 1960s. (I'm from Sweden from the beginning.) I didn't ask specific about this autograph at the time. Because he had 2 Louis Armstong autographs that I was after. And the rest of the autographs I bought from him was just a bonus. ". Bjarne would go on to say he might put it on EBay but if a PSA quick opinion was done and again comes back rejected he worried his account might be suspended so he was sitting on it for the time being.
Mark Ogren felt it was authentic but discussion on the loop ensued; My exemplar didn't have an example of the loop on the bottom of the L, one of them had a very small loop but I am sure if someone looks at enough exemplars you could find one. Travis, the image I attached signed in red ink shows the loop. I did have one other with a small loop also. .and used the following examples;
and then went on further to state his opinion of it being authentic based on the following exemplars starting again with Bjarns rejected signature;
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