Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by DB on November 7, 2012 at 4:12pm

excellent ponts.  Depending how it does unfold will determine the positions.  One thing is for sure, some of these have gotten off the ranch and there will be some authenticators who will simply plant thier seal of approval on them, even if they are given this information.  Hopefully, others who provide authentications will reject them.  Even then we are sure to see the ones that have gotten off the reservation on 2ndary and tertiary auctions, and who knows what websites.  Time to preserve the examples presented.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 7, 2012 at 4:25pm

DB

If AFTAL say they are real they will be rejected by some Auction houses and some will take them too

I will state to some of the Auctioneers what I know, let me state that too

It will be their decision, but lets be honest, you sell now and tomorrow they may be returned ?

Will Auctions take the risk ?

 

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on November 7, 2012 at 4:25pm

Great point! Do we know if any were certified by anyone?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 7, 2012 at 5:11pm

The truth is out there !

What ever the decision is of AFTAL, they would surely not object to anyone telling the truth

By Truth     I mean that I will advise anyone who mentions anything to do with a Jackson autograph that there have been problems regarding Authenticity and they look at this thread on AML

So I would also assume AFTAL and its Registered Dealers will state to any buyers from there Authenticated stock that there has been questions raised .

Im also assuming the honest and reputable people that they are, they will advise of the points raised on this foum via AML before the buyer purchases any item

It will then be up to the buyer how to proceed

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 7, 2012 at 6:39pm

I'm away and internet went down...just had my smartphone. But went to Verizon and activated the 4G on my iPad so I'm back in operation. An iPad with an Apple wireless keyboard is the hot ticket for a notebook replacement when wifi isn't working. The keyboard is the better than my laptop or desktop.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on November 7, 2012 at 10:21pm

Guys good luck with all , you will all propably now get news before me as I won't have comp access am away hunting down Walter Hill , Stallone , Adrian Brody , Tarantino etc
Won't be back till Rome film festival end on 19th
Don't fight amongst you play safe chat after my hunt !!!

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 9, 2012 at 2:33am

Here are 41 Michael Jacksons from a top in person collector from Toronto Jason has collected with and vouches for. Compare hs MJs to Adrian's and I think you'll easily be able to see why o ny of us think Adrian's are fake:

http://www.thesignaturelibrary.com/products.php?cat_id=79
http://www.thesignaturelibrary.com/products.php?cat_id=369

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 14, 2012 at 11:03am

Steve

I have looked these over and of course they are very nice and very expensive ! lol

Now we await the declaration / statement from AFTAL.

So if they state that they fully back Adrians examples of signatures obtained and offer them with AFTAL COAs etc and state their items to be genuine are we to beleive the examples shown here via AML and with a Roger Epperson COA not to be genuine ?

Obviously depending on who you buy from will result in US purchasers being offered a US COA and UK purchasers will be offered a UK COA

No dealer will agree either UK or USA

Can I ask the forum where this leaves the innocent collector ?

This is still continuing without a updated statement from AFTAL, Im hoping this will be resolved soon

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Permalink Reply by DB on November 14, 2012 at 12:00pm

Asking Roger what he thinks if they are smart if AFTAL regardless of reason or rationale supports authenticity.  Since my understanding is that the AFTAL Board Chairman is the only one handling the matter we will have to wait and see what documents from Adrian are awaiting signatures and therefore the AFTAL statement that will come out sooner or later.. 

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on November 14, 2012 at 3:23pm

DB

The length of time worries me ? 

If Im correct with my understanding, I beleive there at least 200 plus items that have been distributed by Adrian on Jackson, never mind the McCartneys . Clint Eastwoods, Fords  etc

Will Aftal issue a statement that they will state they are 100% genuine as there is proof avaialble either by photo or video

So if they do state the Jacksons are genuine, they will have to state the rest are genuine also. They will have to issue Aftal supported COAs to any item sold that came from Adrian

This will conflict with US issued COAs from Roger Epperson wont it ?

This will result in war ? USA versus UK

OR

They may state they are not genuine and then any Aftal dealer that has sold any of these items in the past will have to contact the purchaser,

If they are honest enough to do this, to which I will state of course they WILL refund everyone

The dealer will have to refund the purchase price and take the loss on the massive profit gained

This profit, to which I have read amounts to over $800 per item on Jackson plus purchase price on buying from Adrian

At a guess they were selling for $1200 recently before all of this happened and doubt was cast upon Authenticity

So a dealer who puchased 10 and sold 10 will need to give a refund to purchasers

This will be approx $12000

Wow !!!

So Im hoping this figure of massive refunds will not affect any decision made by Aftal, as Aftal was originally formed to protect the buyer from illegal activities etc

Let us see soon

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Permalink Reply by DB on November 14, 2012 at 4:12pm

Very good scenarios but I'd prefer not to give them exit strategies.  Sometimes it's not "all in" but rather check and pass to the next player.   There is an old saying.  If you want to slow something down hire a consultant but if you really want to screw it up, hire a lawyer.

With the latter, presuming g2 is accurate the time while worrisome is most likely irrelevant as there is an image to maintain and protect so careful consideration to dotting ALL I's and crossing ALL T's is what I suspect is viewed as more important.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on November 14, 2012 at 1:21am

Any statement from AFTAL on this yet?

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