Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Ken Mills on December 6, 2012 at 11:59pm

Hi Steve, Not sure whether you guys have ever seen one of our Television Sitcoms called " Allo Allo ? " On it there is a French resistance Officer who frequently uses the catchphrase " Listen very carefully I shall say this only once " ( better said in a French accent of course ) - so for this purpose I shall borrow her catchphrase.

AFTAL have NOT made their minds up regarding the authenticity or otherwise of the Michael Jackson autographs as yet. Technically there isn't an AFTAL to give a view until the Committee have had a chance to view all the evidence put in front of us. What has gone on before is past history. A new set of eyes and open minds will in due course provide everyone with the truth and as I have stated before there will be no cover up. It is fair to say that the new committee will be judged I hope fairly when their findings are published. Only Garry King has seen the legal statements out of those of us who will be making that judgement so I have no idea what the outcome will be at this stage. Whatever the decision is and our reasons for arriving at that decision will be made public, and no matter which way the coin will fall I would expect those people who at this stage should in the interests of fairness keep an open mind too, accept our findings. We desperately want to move forward from this but we also want to earn the respect of our fellow colleagues within the industry and the customers who rely on our honesty and integrity. So please guys ------ get on with some Christmas shopping, stuff the turkey and don't drink and drive !!!!!!    That is an AFTAL Public Service announcement.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 7, 2012 at 5:05am

Ken,

That kind of response concerns me.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 7, 2012 at 6:06am

Some folks would like to get on with their Christmas shopping. Hopefully you all can figure it out before many of these fakes find themselves under Christmas trees.

AFTAL hasn't made a decision yet? LOL, only been dragging on for months. AFTAL is such a useless group. Can't believe folks would actually pay to be members in such a clvsterfvck. If I paid to be a member of a group I damn sure wouldn't be a pawn. I'd demand they take action or refund my money.  You don't need to be a member of AFTAL to be a good honest broker. Hell a  chunk of AFTAL members are far from being honest brokers themselves. This thread alone shows that.

Customer's rely on AFTAL's honesty and integrity? Yeah right! AFTAL has a conflict of interest in the matter. When the board making the ruling has more of an interest in the decision being made one way over the other then benefit of the doubt will probably be given to the forgers.

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on December 7, 2012 at 6:16am

Here we go again!!!

Whatever your opinion there hasnt been an AFTAL board to make a decision. Ken has been very honest and filled everyone in on whats going on.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on December 7, 2012 at 6:31am

Rick , I dont have any interest and neither does the majority of the new Board that has been asked to be part of this and to prove it one person only does sport another only does Bond etc.

Rick they asked for new members to become a new board so they could give you the answer you are asking for , But that group needs to meet up , This only got together yesterday , It will happen for sure Ken who is the selected spokesperson has said that this is will come to an end when the new board finally meets up and goes through the whole case.

It amazes me that people want to come on here and go on and on and I have given you one of your own Dealers that is selling 1000s and 1000s of fakes every day even now and none of you give a s*** , Who is more expensive Jackson or Ali ?

Never mind it means people want to be selective, This has become now very tiring, I came here and I still come to help this is all I wanted to do , But to what point !! A spokesperson who has been selected less than 24 hrs comes and tells you guys be patient the answer will come , How is he gonna answer to something he dont have the facts for , What do people expect him to do make up the verdict.

Time guys time. I know it has dragged but that has nothing to do with the new 7 guys that have just took a job opened up by you all to help you.

So give this guys a chance to help instead of straight away going into the attack.

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Permalink Reply by Ken Mills on December 7, 2012 at 6:56am

AFTAL hasn't made a decision yet? LOL, only been dragging on for months. AFTAL is such a useless group. Can't believe folks would actually pay to be members in such a clvsterfvck.

Thanks for your support Rick. You haven't listened to a word I have posted and then you wonder why the previous Board told you nothing. I realise you guys live in a 'must have it now ' culture but frankly your comments sicken me. I will not be posting again until after our meeting and in the meantime perhaps you can continue to make your own minds up and work out for yourselves which U.S. Dealers bought M.J's from Adrian and stop them fleecing your fellow Countrymen. You seem to forget he wasn't a member of AFTAL and was freelance to sell to whoever he chose to. So you guys are just as culpable as we are - only us  clvsterfvcks as you so cleverly put it are trying to do something about it. What the clvsterfvck are you doing about it ?

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on December 7, 2012 at 8:43am

Jason/Ken

My opinion on it. I'm entitled to it just as you are entitled to yours. No doubt your opinions will differ from mine....your are members, correct?

Plenty of US Dealers just as bad. You guys always refer back to stating that we are claiming there isnt. This thread is about all of them to is it?

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on December 7, 2012 at 9:35am

Although i think AFTAL will probably do very good in the future. I have noticed the bias between dealers overseas regarding this situation. Their probably are more forgeries in the U.S. sold by dealers than in the U.K., so it really means nothing where we are from. Fakes are fakes, and if attention is given to one party and not so much to another doesnt have to do with anything about the U.S. vs the U.K.

Most of this site is dealing with U.S. dealers selling forgeries so i dont think the U.K. is being picked on. You also have to realize that AFTAL is thought of, at least in my eyes, as the leading autograph club in the U.K.. Much like PSA or JSA is here. So if their is a "scandal" here or their, their is going to be a huge amount of attention focused on it. Its a bigger fish so to speak.

THe milton lubin things is insane and deserves to be dealt with promptly, but the reason that he isnt getting the publicity that AFTAL is getting, is in my guess b/c he is a little fish and not an organization.

This situation has nothing to do with America's culture. I mean that honestly is kind of offensive. We both share the same lifestyle and we both are modernized and guilty to the same vices. The U.K. has just as big of a moral problem as the U.S., so we are pretty much the same. I just dont see this argument of the U.S. vs the U.K. If their are problems with forgeries than they need to be dealt with. Most of this site deals with home grown forgeries but if they pop up elsewhere then thats where the news goes. Especially with a mega organization like AFTAL.

Thats just my take on it. I really dont think anyone is trying to paint the U.K. badly or give it unjust treatment. Just imagine if PSA or JSA had a similar situation and some of the actions may have suggested fowl play. While i cant be sure, but im guessing their would be far more criticism coming from oustide the U.S. than inside. AFtal is just a huge force and thus its gotten huge attention. At least to me.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on December 9, 2012 at 11:27am

Fair reply Carl

I have decided to watch and listen and obviously Xmas is approaching and AFTAL are making the right moves

So lets see, Im still absolutely confused if they are saying the Adrian supplied items are Genuine or Fake, but I assume in theier statement in the New Year this will finally be clarified

If they state Genuine then WAR will erupt lol...USA v UK

If they state Fake then its gonna get real tasty here as refunds will have to be made, and some Dealers are seriously gonna have to find some serious cash in refunds

So I await the official statement in the New Year

Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on December 7, 2012 at 9:32am

Rick how can you say just because we are dealers we will have a different opinion !! Honestly ?
Look the new board is not even 24 hrs old and the attack has opened how can people come on here to help when help is needed when people don't really want to see a result .
Am starting to think that this is not what people want they just think this thread is the fight club , so when some one had a bad day come on here some one not getting laid come on here some one lost his job come on here .

If this continues this guys are gonna say you know what we don't think they deserve an answer let's just tell the people that really want to know . Steve and a few others on here Inc aftal members asked me to be part of this new board as they trust me and know I will make sure nothing is forgotten .

But if you guys go and piss off the other 6 people who are not getting paid to
Do this and sart calling them names when they have not even had a chance to look at anything you will all loose the respect and that will be it .

This is not news to any of us we have been
On acaf for years and we have taken down 1000s of takers exposed people in the media etc .
There is a reason why this new board was selected ad that is because they know what needs to be done .

Just keep your opinion and express it but by saying all this new 7 people have interests don't trust then
They are this they are that without even knowing who they are is wrong.

It's like saying madonna is really black she was born to Jamaican parents wtf .

I honestly don't understand if it is answer people want or a fight .
Maybe some of you like this but I don't this is time wasting from the moment everything has already been
Explained in detail and people need to understand to come over here again
And again it actually becomes a joke .

You all said get rid of the board !! Well the board stood down .
You all said new board needs to come to play well it's been done .
The only other thing left needs for the members to get together and do it and that is not gonna happen on Christmas eve is it now . We have kids in schools kids in pantos we all leave all over the UK and we are all doing thus for free to help the community so people need to step back and let it happen .

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on December 7, 2012 at 9:52am

Carl great read but Milton is not small fish he sells hundreds of thousands of fakes I guarantee you that the files we have in europe on him will dwarf this by two . But maybe he has too many friends on here and they all think it's ok to sell 1000 fake alis a year .

And on another note we know of many other huge criminals in the US but what's the point people can't even see this one , so it's down to ACAF and isitreal to do what we do for years now .
And dont forget what Acaf stands for Autograph Collectors Against Fakes

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on December 9, 2012 at 7:26am

Ken has pretty much said the same things. At the same time, he defends Adrian and says things like "whichever way it goes people will have to accept our findings if we are going to move forward....."

Btw, He is talking about the findings on Adrian's material that's in question.

The point is that people don't HAVE TO ACCEPT anything crammed down our throats by ANY club or organization. That's the wrong attitude to have.

Just remember, concerned collectors and experts on this site recognized and gave alarm to AFTAL's problem. Without those alarms, the former board and many of the dealers would have continued to sell the questioned material. Even the so-called "experts" who should have caught the same problems which were outlined here.


P.S. Jason, I don't know why People on this haven't focused on Milton. I had never heard of him myself until you posted your thread. That Is a problem. Too many things here are done in the style of J Edgar Hoover. Your thread on milton should have been MAJOR news. In the end, was it ever really even commented on? No!

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