Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on October 29, 2012 at 12:00pm

The photo and dvd proof wasnt shown at Autografica

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 29, 2012 at 12:02pm

Did you attend Mick ?

no one had mentioned anything to me, I did ask a few collectors who went to the show

So how does that now affect the items that have been suggested as fake ?

Kinda leaves them in limbo now

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on October 29, 2012 at 3:06pm

No I didnt go. Was told in an email by Garry King

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 29, 2012 at 3:31pm

thanks for the update

im still wondering what the Dealers who have these items are going to do with them

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 29, 2012 at 1:00pm

Believe I read somewhere that "noone asked to see it" thus it must have been by invitation only.  Wasn't even a subject on their blogs....

At this point, Roger Epperson made the call and that is who I would believe, until completely proven otherwise that includes full and unbiased disclosures.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 29, 2012 at 1:08pm

Well i made comments at the time and i was shot down by a couple of people in UK

I only offered reasons that perhaps due to the large amounts of Jackson signatures on the market obtained at that time. Maybe they were secaterials ?

A lot of the items were being passed into his security members, and returned later in the day / overnight

I was kinda hoping AFTAL  would put this to bed and finally clarify

This will never ever go away if it is ignored

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 30, 2012 at 3:08am

I still wonder if Gary King ( while in his role as Her Majesty''s Supreme Chancelor of Authentication ) used these fake Jackson autographs ( or other fakes that he was found to be selling a while back ) as "legal" examples for the crown in cases where he went after "forgery dealers" ( probably the people selling real autographs but not members of their little boy's club).

If so, I hope those people attacked by the Supreme God of Autographs, Mr. King have been paying close attention. Because the evidence of the day should show that any opinions rendered while using the Fake Jackson's ( or possibly other examples ). Are in SERIOUS question now.

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Permalink Reply by DB on October 30, 2012 at 4:06am

I'm surprised the issue hasn't been dealt with in a straightforward manner rather than "briefs", "apparent gag order" and silence.  That is what has gone wrong amongst many things with this hobby.

reminds me of the state chemist in Mass., who was just indicted for falsifying State drug lab analysis.  The result is real "bad ones" are going to be released, and have, along with ones that should never have gotten nailed in the first place.   

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 30, 2012 at 6:42am

The Commoners need not know the results of the "investigation".  All that matters is that the club members are protected as a whole.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 30, 2012 at 11:39am

Brandon,

I just saw your post and can't believe that someone not fighting FOR forgers would write something so utterly vicious and downright wrong. Have you researched Garry King's work for UK law enforcement or are you just shooting from the hip?

I'm sorry, but I am appalled.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 30, 2012 at 12:01pm

Steve,

  I dont know the guy personally but wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility that his work for law enforcement had as much to do with raising his own reputation in the UK and eliminating the competition as it did for the love of the hobby and protection of collectors.

  Not always easy to distinguish the motives of a dealer. $$$'s make people do crazy things. Based on another thread I saw, Roger had a shot at a couple hundred fake MJ's yet said no. That is the integrity I look for. He could have easily played along and made a small fortune. He stamps his name and reputation on those FDC's and they sell. He took the high road. Not all dealers would have done the same thing. I'd venture to bet not many would have done the same.

  Morales, Drew..etc claim to have testified in court before. Can you imagine somebody serving a prison sentence or losing a huge lawsuit on the opinions they testify to? GK might not be in their league but based on some of the items he's sold he is far from being a good authenticator.

  Just my opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 31, 2012 at 11:38am

Rick,

I do know Garry King personally and I have found him to be nothing but 100% conscientious and above board. And you would be hard-pressed to find one autograph dealer considered reputable by the hobby that doesn't consider King honest and reputable (if they know him).

Garry and I have worked together on forgery issues, and in fact, it is thanks to Garry that the main founder of AFTAL, Marc Mclennan, was forced to resign from the AFTAL board this spring due to fraud and forgery concerns.

Garry bought a few, I think just 2 or 3, Michael Jacksons from Adrian Longden after Michael Jackson died, like many dealers did. He was considered an unimpeachable source by many in the UK until Roger connected Adrian to the Michael Jacksons and Paul McCartneys this summer. The fraud was that good...and the autographs looked good, too, until you knew what to look for.

To a degree, dealers have to rely on others they believe they can trust on autographs they're not familiar with, and Adrian and Dominic Manning, his main distributor, had very good reputations until recently. Sometimes they make a mistake, but that's why the reputable ones have meaningful lifetime guarantees, and honor them.

Regarding Roger passing on the 500 MJ first day covers: Most dealers that I know would do just what Roger did...take the high road. The ones who wouldn't are some of the ones who attack us all the time.

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