Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on March 17, 2017 at 8:08am

I look at my autograph collection as a living, ever evolving pursuit. As I learn more about the hobby my tastes change and I continually want to enhance my collection. Unless you have a hefty budget, there are times that selling some of your current holdings make sense to gain a superior item.

Selling some of your collection to reach new objectives is an eye opening experience that also improves your collecting skills.

It's an exciting part of the hobby although it can be extremely humbling as well.

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Permalink Reply by carl cripps on March 17, 2017 at 8:47am

joe and DP,  boy did you guys hit the nail on the head with these postings....great stuff.   where you mention missing an opportunity DP i agree....i remember barely missing out on a jim croce autograph  some years ago and well we all know it was a rare chance to own a beauty.....thanks guys.....

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Permalink Reply by Susan Thames on April 27, 2017 at 2:54am

Right on! Makes total sense because we do learn as we continue,collecting and our expertise ( hopefully) becomes more skilled! Also our tastes and desires do change.I just sold a Crosby,Stills,Nash signed 1st album ( without Crosby's - of course..lol) because I had foolishly sold my seperate Crosby signature ( with psa and good provinence)! I had the trio and after letting Crosby go for a "song" I just decided to let the others go too! Not good to be impatient as a collector either!..lol but I felt replacing my Crosby ( for the complete set) might be too "pricey" for me now and though I like them as a group,I realized that I just had to let that little collection go!

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Permalink Reply by Christopher on March 18, 2017 at 2:23pm

Wonderful posts.  I've been in the hobby less than three years and moved through most of these learning experiences.  For me personally, the growth process advanced further.  It involves how each person defines for themselves what a "collector" is and starting to realize that not all signed music memorabilia is "collectible".  My initial purchases included a signed Journey Escape, signed REO Speedwagon High Infidelity, signed Hall & Oates Rock and Soul Part I, signed James Taylor Greatest Hits, signed Def Leppard, etc.  This was, as our friend Paul H would say, my "A Stock". Then I came to realized that that none of it is "collectible" really. While this was some of the music of my youth, and I could enjoy them for this reason, they are not investments, are unlikely to appreciate in value, and if I wanted or needed to sell them, I would be lucky to get my money back.  And all that is great, perfectly fine.  But after spending what felt to me like quite a bit of money, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't continue devoting financial resources to things that were not "collectible" and started to feel like the money spent was a large sunk cost.  Turning this corner, I started trying to figure out what is both "collectible" and desirable to me personally.  Collectible now defined as there being a market for it all the time and a strong likelihood of value appreciation over time - and if you find a good deal, the chance for value appreciation immediately or soon, which is about learning what to pay and how to avoid overpaying for something.  My modest collection now includes Pink Floyd, The Eagles, U2, Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton, Bob Dylan, Paul McCartney etc. I still have some stuff that is not particularly collectible by this new definition, simply because I really like it.  Dave Matthews Band is probably the best example.  I have two pieces and a third at the frame shop right now. But with these, I have realistic expectations about value appreciation, which is to say I don't expect much and don't care.  Finally, there's always room to learn and grow, no matter what stage of the process you're in.  I have collector friends now, some of whom I met on this website, who have vastly larger and more important collections than mine. I'm not envious.  I'm happy for them.  They are the model for what my collection may become some day, and I selfishly learn all I can from them.  Anyway....sorry for the brain dump.  I hope this adds something to the discussion.  

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Permalink Reply by carl cripps on March 18, 2017 at 2:59pm

it certainly does add to the discussion christopher and for myself this is what this forum is all about.  i know i learn more from these type of discussions and hope to see more people such as yourself and rich  and the others add their postings....

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Permalink Reply by DP on March 18, 2017 at 3:38pm

Those are great points. One of the bands I liked growing up was the Outfield but you are right when you compare them to some of the classics from a collectiblility standpoint like Led Zeppelin, Bob Dylan, U2, The Eagles, The Beatles, etc.

But having the Outfield Play Deep signed LP is something I really am glad to have.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on March 18, 2017 at 4:01pm

James Taylor may not be as valuable, for instance, as Pink Floyd signatures but that does not worth owning. He still has millions of fans and people still will purchase his autograph. Just know what the market value of his signature helps you find what is a good buy. If you are just looking at this as investment potential based on the current environment then that is too narrow. Don't forget patience. Someday a $50 investment will double and that's a great return. If you are a fan of James, it's a win-win situation. Don't be short sighted.

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Permalink Reply by Christopher on March 19, 2017 at 6:32am

I completely agree Joe.  I used DMB in my earlier post, but James Taylor is a national treasure.  I favor photos and have 3 James Taylor.  Owning these is because I'm a fan and not about buying as investment.  Here's my favorite of the three.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on March 19, 2017 at 6:53am

Very nice, Christopher. James Taylor is one of my favorite singers. And this signed photo is awesome! What James Taylor fan wouldn't want this one hung on their wall?

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Permalink Reply by Josh Board on March 18, 2017 at 10:32pm

First, you guys are awesome. To spend the time to write out such long replies, and with terrific advice. I wish the world were filled with more people like you folks.

Now, this was already said in one of Rich's points. DO NOT collect for financial gain. DO NOT buy, because you think something is a good investment. I did that a few times (example: Richard Nixon book, and J Edgar Hoover). A library was selling them...half price. I paid $250 for each of them. I was new to the hobby and thought that was a terrific price. It wasn't (and I've had many other examples of that).

So do this. Collect IN PERSON, and ONLY people you like. It could be the third string quarterback on the Cleveland Browns (damn, I might not be able to name the starting QB). But if you like him, get it. Save it. Enjoy it. It might be worth 50 cents in 50 years, but so what.

DO NOT DO THIS....as a money making venture.

Do it for fun.

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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on March 19, 2017 at 6:26am

I have to agree with Josh. I have worked in a collectibles shop for over a decade, and the first thing I say to a new customer is always "This is a fantastic hobby, but it is never, ever an investment."   

Sure, if you stick with it long enough, you may see a change in value, but most often it is something silly like Dave Prowse (Darth Vader) signed these photos for me in 1997 for $5 or $10, but now he is charging $50 or $75. Yep, if I sell I made money, but if I had bought shares in Google instead of Dave Prowse autographs .....where would my profit level be 20 years later?

InPerson collecting is the way to go if you can, but lots of people find themselves out of the loop with no celebrities visiting their home town. If you feel that you have to buy an autograph, the other piece of advice I can give (and yes it seems quite against everything I have said above) "Spend the money."  

You can find a Harrison Ford autograph for $200, chances are that same autograph will be pretty ugly and be worth $200 or less in the years to come. If you find a real high quality Harrison Ford signature on the right piece (size & image) and it costs you $600 or $900 or $2000, chances are it will be the piece that gains in value over time.

Autographs or any collectible for that matter, as an investment, sure it can happen, but if you plan on making a profit, you had better be the most educated person in your field, the absolute best of the best in the hobby. Then maybe you will see an increase in the value of your collection.  

 

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Permalink Reply by Rich on March 19, 2017 at 6:56am

This kind of reminded me about a book I picked up maybe ten years ago - Kiplinger's Guide to Investing Success, a pretty good basic investing reference book. I liked it because it was pretty comprehensive for being an "investing for beginners" book. One of the chapters addressed precious metals and collectibles, with one section called "Why Collectibles Aren't Investments." It offered, without even addressing the specific issues (i.e. forgery) regarding autographs, several compelling arguments against viewing collectibles of any sort as investments.

Specific issues you don't have to worry about as much about with other financial assets that plague collectibles are:

* You're getting no income from tying up your money

* Costs of ownership: appraisals (authentication in this case), insurance, maintenance, storage, security - all things that are decidedly a non-concern if you were buying stocks or bonds.

* Cost, complexity of buying and selling.

I like how the author ended the section as well:

"Knowledgable collectors with a fine eye for quality have a reasonable chance of making a little money, too. The buy for love, not profit, which means they are guided in their purchases by their own tastes, not the fads of hot markets. If the things they love were shunned by their collectors at the time of purchase, they were able to buy low, giving them an opportunity to sell high s few years later - assuming that other collectors had come around  to their tastes in the meantime."

It the concludes with:

"Good luck, but don't include collectibles in your long range plans for financial security. That would be confusing a hobby with an investment strategy."

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