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Authenticity is Everything
The Great American Blues Players Signature Study: Please Add Your Examples
Hello everyone,
I have been wanting to start a thread on this for a long time, and i figure now is as good of a time as any. I collect primary guitar players, and have been selling alot of them off recently, but one thing i continue to collect are the great old blues guitar players. Their is something about the Delta Blues traveling lifestyle that holds alot of wonder for me. These guys laid the foundation of modern music and they inspired many, if not most, of the musicians working today. Most think of Robert Johnson when they think of the great Blues players, but their are so so many others that deserve mention and tons of respect.
As anyone who has ever studied early blues signatures knows, they are incredibly difficult to authenticate or even find at times. You have guys like Muddy Waters, Buddy Guy, BB King just to name a few whose signature examples can readily be found. But aside from a few key players, autographs from these guys are very hard to find. And when you find one, often you really have to trust your source or do some serious research. And even then you often cant find examples.
So i thought this would be a good thread that may help future collectors out with examples we think are authentic. Please post examples of blues signatures that you like and want to share. Guys like Buddy Guy and BB King probably dont need to be posted in mass b/c their signatures are so abundant, but dont hesitate if you would like to post some.
I hope this can turn into a good database, and really the only one of its kind on the net. I have many examples from many different sources and if someone doesnt want their picture posted just leave a comment and i will delete it.
I am going to start this off with Albert King. You can find Albert King signatures from time to time, and of the 3 King's, he is the next most available after BB. Alberts signatures are typically sloppy, shaky, and can take on a few forms. Albert often write "Love You" before his signature, and his typical signature takes the form of A. King. I have also seen variations including "A.B. King". King often would not write out King fully and the formation would flow from the K almost into the g. I have seen my fair share of forgeries with Albert, but his signature can be authenticated in most instances in my opinion. Here are some examples with sources:
This is one album i used to own and recently sold on RR Auction. It came from "Mr. Bebop", of Larrys Books and Autographs. He specializes in blues signatures and this was a great example of king.
These next images came from RR Auction
The Ace of Spades album is a nice example, and the rarer A.B. King signature. The middle cut display is more atypical. This one in my eyes can go either way but is probably good. The A looks typical but the King is a little more unusual. But he did do this from time to time in his shorter signature versions. The bottom example is a typical King signature.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on
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Hello everyone, back again.
This time i thought we could look at one of the more popular modern blues musicians, John Lee Hooker. Hooker has a career that really speaks for itself, so i wont go too much into it. Hooker simply was one of the best and most influential blues musicians that has come along. He developed basically a new genre of the blues and a distinct style. Hooker combined a country type style of blues with walking baselines, ultimately developing a walking country blues style. Hooker had an amazing voice, and combined with his guitar playing, he was unstoppable. He influenced a host of modern musicians, and helped to shape blues into what it is today.
Hooker autographs are common on the market. He died in 2001 and was a good signer, and their are many examples on the market. But that doesnt mean that they arent pricey. Hooker autographs typically run from around 50 dollars for a cut signature to around the 250 range for a high quality item. If you monitor ebay and double check items with Roger Epperson or PSA you can easily get a signed album for under 100 dollars if you are patient and dont mind inscriptions. I have purchased 2 through ebay and both for under 80 dollars. And each were very much authentic.
Hooker does represent a problem for me, however, when it comes to authentication. Hooker did not give neat nice signatures. He chiefly used large block letters for his signature. Typically you would get John L Hooker, or John Lee Hooker in all caps. Although Hooker would frequently also sign JLH in all caps under his full signature. Sometimes its all standard caps, and sometimes he would make a more cursive capital L, in the JLH abbreviation. In my experience those are the norms, although i have seen a few where Hooker just signed JLH in the above format above, with no spelled out signature. These are especially hard to authenticate in my opinion. Hookers dedications, which he often gave, help to identify authenticity, but it still can be hard. In my opinion Hooker signatures are all over the place, although most have a particular slant to them and letter formation. But the formation is largely so elementary that i have alot of trouble with them. On some i can say that i believe they are authentic, but most of the time i just cant comment b/c i have seen some great forgeries on him. And forgers target him heavily. Their are always forgeries from him on ebay. Alot of the autograph sites on the net that sell solely forgeries, such as the ones who sell 20 plus fully signed Beatles albums for 500 dollars, also pump out many Hooker forgeries. Avoid these sites!
B/c i am not that good with him, here are some examples that are mostly authenticated by Roger and RR. I through in a few i own or owned, and a few i think are authentic. Hopefully others who have a better grasp on Hookers key characteristics can comment. But here are some to compare too. I would also add, that personally i would not buy a Hooker item from a major auction if you are in the market for one. Their of course is nothing wrong with it, but you can get a much better deal on ebay in my opinion with patience and some help from Roger Epperson.
Here is one from ebay i think is good.
Here is one from ebay that has a JLH that looks good to me, but the written out signature i am not sure on, although its probably good. This is what makes him so hard for me.
Here is an easily identifiable horrid Hooker forgery from ebay. These are out their in mass
Here is a Hooker signed contract from ebay i believe. It looks authentic, but man is it messy
Here is an amazing piece from RR that gives tons of writing to compare too, and shows how neat he could write if he wanted too. A great comparison piece from Hookers prime days. His signature obviously went downhill as he aged.
Here is another from RR
And another from RR
From RR
From RR
From RR
From RR
From RR
From RR
From RR
Here is a signed LP i used to own that recently sold at RR. I purchase it off ebay and both PSA QO and Roger and RR thought it was good, and i agree.
Here is one from google said to be authenticated by Roger
Here is an LP i own from Hooker that i purchased off ebay.
Their are many examples of Hooker out their that can be obtained at good prices. Be patient and you can get a steal on an item. But unless you really feel comfortable, id get a 2nd opinion from a pro if their is any question.
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Thank you very much for the compliment William but i am just a fan, and an amateur at best at blues guys
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Permalink Reply by Richard Booth on
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The letter was not written by John. Usually his assistant hand wrote his letters and correspondence and John then signed them at the close. That is why it appears neat! I have a great Gibson Guitar contract signed by John, which I will scan as soon as I can locate it in my extensive collection!
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Permalink Reply by BallroomDays67 on
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I'm not very familiar with John Lee Hooker's signature, but a friend of mine who is familiar with it told me there's no way that the letter was signed by him. If it was indeed signed by Hooker, his signature certainly did go downhill in later years.
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On the letter, does anyone happen to have some handwriting from John other than a signature? I trust you guys that the letter is bad b/c Hooker just isnt a strong point for me. Hopefully RR can correct that one if indeed it is bad. It certainly is far neater than any example i have seen. I assumed this might have been Hookers writing early in his career, but as you guys have pointed out, it is a drastic change from his normal signatures.
Hopefully as more see this thread, someone may have a handwritten letter they can upload to show what Johns handwriting looked like over a broader spectrum. I dont recall ever seeing such a letter but i feel confident they exist
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Actually, the letter is supposed to have been signed by Hooker, but not written by him.
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Hi Guys,
As i said i do value your opinions, but do you guys think its the whole item or just the signature not signed by Hooker. In my opinion the letter either has a fake JLH signature on it and someone else wrote the letter, or its legitimate and Hooker wrote the whole thing. Now i am the first to admit i could be wrong, but here are a few things i notice.
First, just breaking down the signature, if it is Hookers, it is the neatest example i have ever seen from him. Do you guys think the signature is authentic? If the consensus is that the signature is fake then the jury is closed, but if some think its authentic then it opens up another door. And i dont have enough experience to say either way, and maybe Roger can comment on what he has seen from Hooker before. But if that signature is authentic, then Hooker, at least at one time could write very nice. Now i started picking apart the signature and comparing it to the letters writing, and in my opinion, the letter was written by the same person who signed the JLH signature. Take for instance the lowercase h's in his signature. Note how at the top of the arch, it resembles a peak, instead of a rounded H. This is very consistent and matches up well throughout the letter in my opinion. The double lower case Os also look right on. And while their is some little deviations, it still looks like the same hand signed the whole letter in my opinion. But i am most certainly open to conversation and opinions on it and certainly could be wrong.
It doesnt resemble any known Hooker graph i have ever seen, so either its fake or an example from Hooker that is very rare. At least in my opinion. If i just randomly had to guess i would say that the whole letter was written by someone other than Hooker, and that same someone signed his name for him. Not in a forgery attempt, but as Richard pointed out i believe, that someone often wrote letters for Hooker. My best guess is that that is what happened, b/c it looks to be all inteh same writing to me.
Great discussion guys, thanks for bringing this up. Very informative.
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The letter is described as being an "LS", which is a letter written in another hand and signed by the actual person. However, I get the same impression that the letter and signature are in the same hand. Also, unlike the other signatures pictured above, the one on the letter doesn't appear to be the signature of an illiterate man.
I see that the letter was sold through Heritage back in '06 with an LOA from PSA/DNA. It was sold along with this receipt from 1962:
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I have an embossed first day cover signed and inscribed. I will dig it out and add the photo here. He has written happy birthday to.... In block capitals
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Here is my original sketch of a guitar by John, that was reproduced for the limited edition prints released a few years ago!
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image.jpg, 86 KB
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Hi Guys,
I thought tonight i would post some various signatures that i have very few examples of. On a few, i only have one example. These guys are very rare and their autographs very obscure.
The first is Mr. Eddie Jones. Most, including myself would never know him by this name, but ears may perk up when you mention his stage name, Guitar Slim. Slim was a wondering player as most were of the day, but Slim's acts set him apart from others. He was kind of like the Dennis Rodman of the day. His stage act was full of theatrics, as Slim often died his hair, interacted with the audience, performed tricks, etc. He was known for having his guitar tech follow him out amongst the crowd with a huge guitar chord, often clobbering the audience with the chord as he went. But people loved it, at least for a little while. Eventually the luster faded, and Slim became an alcoholic and died way to young in the 50s, in his mid 30s i believe. B/c of this, Slim autographs are all but non existent. Their are a few out their, but they are among the rarest blues autographs you can find. I have only seen one and i cant say its authentic. Although i do believe personally it is, i have never seen another so i cant compare it to anything. It was sold at RR i believe. If you could ever find one of these guys, you need to expect to pay between 350 and 600 dollars. Although i personally would put it in the 4 to 5 hundred dollar range. He is that rare. Their are far more expensive blues graphs that are more common than Slim, but for the lesser known blues guitarists, he is one of the more expensive ones.
This is from RR i believe
I will throw this in for conversation, but i cant give much of an opinion on authenticity. This comes from ioffer and is from a multi signed piece. The signature is said to be Slim's real name signature. This is very strange indeed in my opinion. Ioffer is known for its fakes, so that is always on ones mind, but if someone was going to forge Slims signature, then why would they look up his real name and forge his real name? Its just strange. This item isnt being marketed with Slim being the chief attraction, he is just one of a number of signers. And i would think if someone was going to forge a multi signature piece, that they would forge the common name. Otherwise someone could be looking hard for a Slim signature, and pass right over this signature b/c they were expecting to see Guitar Slim instead of Eddie. Then when you compare it to the signature from RR, the writing doesnt look comparable. The Eddie signature looks fast, fluent, and steady. The RR item looks more labored and with less penmanship. Typically i would say that this could be due to old age, but Slim didnt live late, and during his 30s, their shouldnt be a problem with old shaky hands. Its just a strange beast, but i would probably pass on it, its just to risky.
Next up we have a very rare player once again, Mr. Mathis James Reed, better known as Jimmy Reed. Reed was a prominent blues figure in and around the 40s. Reed was one of the first pioneers of the electric blues, choosing to use an electric guitar for most of his music. His guitar technique was amazing, and influenced practically everyone after his death. Reed was another who died way before he should have, living into the mid 70s, reaching around 50 yrs of age. Sadly Reed never obtained the broad popularity that other lesser players did at the time. Not b/c people didnt like him, but b/c Reed was battling alcoholism, and this proved too much for the man. Reed autographs are mega rare, basically only slightly more common than Slim's autograph. Their are more around b/c he lived into the 70s, but b/c of Reed's addiction, he wasnt very accessible towards his deathbed and very few signatures were given. I have only seen a handful as they very rarely come to market. Realistically id watch the major auction houses more than ebay, but watch them both to make sure. His autograph is expensive and id expect to pay between 200 dollars for a cut, to 600 dollars for a better item. Ironically when i found several examples on RR, which is my main source on Reed, the document only fetched around 200 dollars, and the photo went for above 600. I thought the document would have actually fetched higher, but thats how it goes. I do believe these all to be authentic though.
From RR
From RR
This one i cant remember the source of. Im the least sure on it, but i think it probably is good
Now speaking of Jimmy Reed, i thought i would briefly bring up one of his best friends, and fellow guitar giant, Eddie Taylor. Taylor is another player who isnt as well recognized as he should be. He actually taught Jimmy Reed to play guitar, and he influenced the electric blues sound immensely, but he never rose to prominent fame among the masses. But he did leave a legacy behind in his music and his son who continues his style of playing. Taylor autographs are quite rare, and i have only seen a handful. I consider them on about the same level as Johnny Shines. Taylor graphs are probably slightly rarer, but if you search hard you can find them. I am in the market for one, and the last 2 i saw offered for sale were from Mr. Bebop. Although Taylor is rare, b/c he didnt reach the popularity of others, his autograph doesnt carry the insane price tag that others of his rareness do. I would price them between 50 and 150 dollars. Unfortunately the few i have seen i didnt save at the time and now have lost the image sources. I only have one for comparison, and it came from Mr. Bebop. Taylor lived into the 80s so their are autographs out their, just be patient, and im going to be giving you competition if a good one comes up.
From Mr. Bebop
Next up is a guy that i have looked long and hard for. I have found only 2 examples of signatures claiming to have been from him, and i cant verify either. Mr. David Kimbrough, better known as Junior Kimbrough, remains elusive to me. And i cant figure out why. He lived into the late 90s and lived a fairly long life, so where are the signatures?? Like a few other blues guys, it just doesnt add up, surely they are around. And living that late, their should be numerous examples, but thats not the way old blues player collecting goes, and its very frustrating. Maybe Kimbrough followed in the tradition of Homesick James and Snooky Pryor, and just didnt like to give autographs period, especially to white people. But i have never seen one for sale. If anyone has one, let me know. Kimbrough was a mesmerizing singer and guitarist, and his solos were crazy good for the time. He used odd time signatures that really made his music stand out from the others. The 2 signature examples i have, i do not remember the source on, and both are in block letter format. Are they real?? i dont know, but its all ive got, and it took me a long time just to find these. Price wise, id expect to find one between 75 and 200 dollars. He is indeed crazy rare, but he isnt one of the biggies that the collectors typically go after. But ive never seen one for sale so i really have no clue on that estimate.
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