Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 4, 2012 at 6:13am

Sorry I forgot to add my email is thanosj@hotmail.com if anyone ever needs help in something I can provide my opinion on a item.

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on August 4, 2012 at 10:21am

Gladly, someone else agrees with my opinion on both the team signed and the Ronaldo.  I have been obtaining football signatures in Italy for 15 years and quit once I moved to the states; so it's not like I give advice without knowing what I am saying is at least credible (and that Kaka on the squad signed shirt is REALLY laughable, like I've said.  Gotten him dozens of times and that was a pathetic effort).  

Your best bet, Nelson, is go with Icons.   Icons will have their guarantee etc, very well known in the business, paperwork for its authenticity etc.  On top of that, they're licensed by UEFA.  (I am sure Jason has something for you as well)  You are going to have to pay up, but what you will be getting is 100% legitimate.  Right now they have a sale I think, so maybe you can find something you like.  

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Permalink Reply by Colin Smith on August 4, 2012 at 10:49am

In fairness Mike you thought the Ronaldo was genuine at the beginning. I don't get why people think they have to comment on items that they clearly do not know what they're talking about. Anyone who knows Ronaldo's signature can recognise instantly that it was is not authentic. Beating around the bush through lack of knowedge helps no-one. If you aren't sure, don't comment. Save confusion!

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on August 4, 2012 at 11:47am

I said it "could be but VERY UNLIKELY" because you never know; didn't say it was real.  Look at the discussions on this forum, some signatures look so wild that can either be definitely fake or authentic but really peculiar.  you don't know what is authentic unless you've seen it in person yourself.

I don't really care if you respect my opinion or not, but especially with football autographs you have to use your head.  If a signed Messi jersey on Icons costs $500, why would a team signed Barcelona jersey cost you less than $400.  And, why would a company that no one has heard of have private signings with the athletes when some sponsored companies have trouble getting the top athletes to sign??  Using basic information like this will save the business from digging deeper in the black hole it's already in.  Here are two usernames on ebay I want you all to look at.  Go to their transactions during Apr 2010-Sept 2010.  LOOK HOW MUCH MONEY THEY SOLD FAKE TEAM SIGNED SHIRTS FOR. Look at how many people who left feedback think they are authentic and probably have them up in frames as we speak thinking they have the real deal.  Not surprisingly, these sellers claimed to have inside sources to items, and they are "no longer registered users."  Coincidence huh?  Hopefully now you realize why myself, and many others get so passionate when talking about this stuff.  The sale of forgeries devalues everything we have collected IP when people buy this junk.  

http://myworld.ebay.com/becks20092010

http://myworld.ebay.com/european-shirts

You seem to take it personal Collin, my comment wasn't meant to make you mad as I actually liked to see someone else who shares my opinion.  I dont know if even have obtained signatures in person, but the Kaka was the only one I could provide a solid opinion on given I have gotten him several times and that was clearly a joke.  Scroll back to a couple of pages and see my input in that before trying to make this personal.  I am just trying to help this industry, and after all it's an opinion and not set in stone.  

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on August 4, 2012 at 2:44pm

Mike here in the UK we have been fighting fakers like those you linked to for years. ACAF as a group managed to get 100's removed from ebay but ebay just lets them open up new accounts and start all over again. Its a never ending and pretty thankless task.

It was proven that 1 person had as many as 20 active ebay id's selling this fake rubbish. They were turning over £10k a month

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Permalink Reply by Mike P on August 4, 2012 at 3:14pm

I wouldn't doubt those figures and I have heard of the ACAF.  I've watched a show with regard to the British Customs on the BBC; I think one of the AFTAL dealers was on it to confiscate counterfeit goods, in that case, forgeries. I am a huge fan of the AFTAL as well.

Those ebayer sellers I've mentioned have earned well over 20.000 € just during the World cup, it's shocking.  One of them was an Australian "dealer" that claimed he got his stock from a "reputable source" in the UK.  The other, claimed she was friends with a high official in the Spanish Football Federation. 

What's sad, is that every signature that each seller offered looked identical to previous ones they have sold; they seemingly had an endless stock as well.  I don't want to drift off topic on this thread, but the team signed jerseys offered by the same seller that sold Nelson the Ronaldo are bad in my opinion. 

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 4, 2012 at 10:57am

Guys 2 last points from me and I hope we dont carry on with this matter as its run it course.

1 no reason for anyone to get personal or say i said you said , As am sure all of us know something that the next guy on something, For example I dont know Vintage so some other do etc.

So no point burning bridges or trying to throw fire at each other.

2nd Point some one mentions Manchester United top at a Private Signing ? That does not exist and never ever has United are the only Team I know in the UK that do not sell full squad shirt unlike Man City etc.

Now they have signed shirts for charity or for friends etc Yes that has Happened, But I think what you all dont know is that in the last 24 months a backroom member was fired for Signing Full squad shirts and selling them of as obtained direct from inside the Club.

This game is a landmine it is a chaotic hobby or bussiness lets all try to survive today so we can leave tomorrow..

Jason

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Permalink Reply by Colin Smith on August 4, 2012 at 11:08am

Jason, just to make it clear, United send out authentic signed memorabilia via their charity. It is fully certified by the Club and easily distinguished. This is not the same as someone obtaining signed items from 'sources' i.e United backroom staff members etc. (and i know exactly what you mean when you refer to this) within the club 

Just to be clear. 

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 4, 2012 at 3:56pm

You know the job of the authenticators is getting extremely tough.
Because the forgers are getting better. As weid as this sounds when I
Became the most dangerous guy in Europe regarding Ronaldo signatures
We realised that the fakers were following my debates and arguments when
I was analysing the signatures . So it stopped me from explaining exactly how
I knew they were fake as they would fix the errors I had spoke off . Forgers are
Getting good all the time.
This is the reason why my close friends like Nick from authentic signings in new York
Is having a hard time , because he has the best stock in the us but fakers sell similar
Product half the price with fake photo proof .

I have been chosen by Online Authentics to represent them in Europe
For the people who don't know who they are they are the agents of the biggest
Us sports stars 35 years with Muhhamad Ali and mike Tyson and loads top names.
Harlan spend 500.000 us dollars inventing the online registry because with the creation
Of eBay he saw how bad this was gonna go and he was right .

Now across the world when people want to buy an Ali they ask is Online Authentics ?
It dont matter if it's Japan , china or Dubai , and this is cause they are 100% sure it's
Lifetime guarantee .

Same with nick s stuff he pays for every star and has them holding up stock
He issues Hologramed photos COA etc.

Unfortunately we have to have eyes in the back of our heads
And ears everywhere . And by standing together as one in this
Forums and communities we are helping a little every day.

Before I close I would like to apologise for my bad hand writing I may
Leave in Manchester England but I am actually Greek .

Keep it up guys ..

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Permalink Reply by Nelson Neves on August 6, 2012 at 12:44pm

Hey Jason one other question. Would you say its safe to buy from any AFTAL  dealer?

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Permalink Reply by BWilliams on August 6, 2012 at 12:51pm

I wouldn't touch anything from AFTAL members.  From what I have read on this site, their reputation, aside from their inner group, is awful.  The founding dealer Sports and Star Autographs was called out on here for selling traced signatures that were once run in RRAuction. 

Sport and Star Autographs/Authenticate-it are the founders of AFTAL Autographs Fair Trade Association.  AFTAL is run by the UK's best autograph dealers and in person collectors. our objective is to help to stamp out fake autographs within our industry. For more information please view our About Me page. We are UACC Registered Dealers 204 and AFTAL Approved Dealers 004

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on August 6, 2012 at 12:59pm

I agree I wouldnt buy from some of them but there are some very good sellers on there who collect all their stuff personally and buy nothing in. Its unfair to tarnish everyone at AFTAL with the same brush.

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