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Authenticity is Everything
What is with the second Dr. Gordon Meet The Beatles LP at Heritage tomorow?
Yesterday I started a thread in the Town Square category which was just meant to deal with the general issue of liability with respect to letters of authenticity. I used an example from tomorrow's Heritage auction - a signed "Meet The Beatles" (MTB) album.
Having dug a bit deeper, I realise that this album has been auctioned a couple of times recently and has been discussed on AML as well. I think it is definitely worth looking at it again.
Here is the item link:
http://entertainment.ha.com/itm/entertainment-and-music/beatles-sig...
As you can see, the album has a 1995 Frank Caiazzo letter of authenticity and is offered with an estimate of "$15k and up".
This album was sold by the doctor's family for around $63k in May 2011 and re-sold at RR Auctions for about $120k in March 2014. RR stated that the album was accompanied by full letters of authenticity from PSA/DNA, Roger Epperson/REAL, and Tracks. No mention of Frank's 1995 - why?.
The album was discussed on AML when the 2011 sale took place ("Unknown Band-Signed "Meet the Beatles" Album Surfaces in Antiques Auction, Sells for $63,250", posted 6 June 2011). The images in that thread look a whole lot dirtier than the Heritage images - presumably it has been to the restorers for a wash and brush-up.
Here is the AML link:
http://live.autographmagazine.com/profiles/blogs/unknown-bandsigned...
Quite why the album is being offered yet again with an estimate of "$15k up" and with no mention of the letters of authenticity included in RR's item description is anyone's guess. It may be my eyes, but the image in Frank's 1995 letter also appears to be the "cleaned up" version. Very strange!
Dr. Gordon apparently had two MTB Albums signed. One was inscribed to him and the other (the album being sold tomorrow) was not. In the 2011 AML discussion people found it odd that the uninscribed album had only surfaced several years after the inscribed one had been sold. With the new Heritage information that the uninscribed one had been authenticated by Frank in 1995 this now seems even odder. It may be that the family had it authenticated in 1995 but why if it was not being sold at the time? They knew where it came from.
As a side issue, also discussed in 2011, it also seems odd that the doctor didn't get the second MTB inscribed to his son and why George wouldn't have mentioned the doctor's treatment, as he did on another example signed for the doctor.
By the way. the inscribed Dr. Gordon album appears to have sold at Case Antiques for around $75k later in 2011 (after the June AML post). After that it appears to have disappeared into a collection. I would far rather have had that one as there is an actual link to the provenance story.
Phew! Sorry if all that was a bit confusing. I have no vested interest or grudges against any particular auction house or authenticator by the way.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Paul on
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I'd want the album that has the inscription thanks for the jab as well.
Maybe heritage don't want their buyers to know that the albums been auctioned off before or there is a policy with passing on the other coas.
To me it looks like the albums been through the car wash(restorers) and they haven't mentioned that in the listing along with a new coa.
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Permalink Reply by Trazom1 on
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Look more closely. The two signed MTBs cited with links in the original post are not the the same example. They are completely different albums. Note that the signatures do not match. They are in completely different locations.
Comparison of the albums suggests that they may have been signed in the same sitting, for the doctor, but they are different album covers. And, of course, both appear to be genuine. The one offered by Heritage looks quite spectacular!
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on
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Thanks CJS. Wow, that's staggering!
First, how could I have been so stupid and blind not to spot the different positioning of the signatures?
More importantly, it now appears that there are three Dr. Gordon albums and not the two we originally thought there were. At the time Case Antiques sold the inscribed (Jabs) version they stated that it was the last one the family had (see text lines 6-7 at the following link):
http://caseantiques.com/item/lot-566-signed-meet-the-beatles-album-...
For completeness here is an AML article issued before the Jabs album was sold.
http://autographmagazine.com/americas-most-important-signed-beatles...
Am I completely losing my marbles or is there some explaining to do?
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So which ones the manufactured mtb album done by the restorer that's what I'm asking?
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When I wrote my comment I was thinking that at least 3 MTBs were signed around the time that the inscribed Dr. Gordon MTB cover was, since the 3 are all so very similar in terms of placement of signatures (and therefore probably signed in succession in one sitting).
What I don't know is the placement of signatures on some of the other known genuine signed MTBs. If some of them are also similar in terms of signature placement and appearance, then I think it's reasonable to assume that they were signed essentially at the same time as the known Gordon pieces. It may be that the band signed several at once, at the Ed Sullivan Theater, and that not all of these were intended for Dr. Gordon.
A signed MTB with impeccable provenance, inscribed to Louise Harrison, is known with certainty to have been signed at a slightly later time than the Gordon items, while the Beatles were en route from NY to Washington DC. It looks completely different from the Gordon pieces, with markedly different placement of signatures.
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It's sounds plausible Cj. We still don't know for fact. The two mtb albums looks like their 40 years old and one doesn't.
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Thanks for your reply, Paul. I certainly know how you feel, but, for me, the piece being sold by Heritage is the most desirable of the 3 because of its excellent state of preservation. Such things exist. Just look at some of the pieces recently offered by Frank Caiazzo.
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If they did have a general album signing session at the theatre it is not something mentioned by Louise Harrison in the video that was produced for the RR Auction sale in 2014 (which is also included in the AML videos section - see front page).
I also doubt very much that George would have felt up to signing any more albums than he really had to.
At the very least there is inconsistency about the number of albums coming from the Gordon family.
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Only 7 (6, excluding Louise H's LP) are known... I only have seen images for 4 of the 7. I was simply wondering what the other 3 look like, and suggesting that if they are concordant in appearance with the known Gordon pieces, that they might have been signed in the same setting.
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If the caiazzo coa stated it was signed after or before show I don't think there would be any questions to ask. Also how white washed the album is my concern. It could have been preserved well of course Cj. Cj I'd like to see where the other mtb items are and look at them. If we know there's 6 then they would have to be cataloged somewhere.
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I have to correct myself about the Harrison video. She does mention that the band were given a few albums to sign. Obviously she wouldn't remember how many exactly and she doesn't sound 100% sure that the doctor received one or two.
Whatever happened then there is certainly inconsistency between what the doctor's family have said they had (2 albums) and the number now attributed to the Gordon estate (3 albums). Maybe Frank's album was one of the "several" albums that Louise mentions and Frank got muddled up when attributing it to the Gordon estate (though you would have thought he would have checked with the family).
As to the condition of the album, it may not be as clean in real life as it is in the scan but it certainly does look cleaned-up. If you read the earlier AML discussion from 2011 most members agreed that a fifty year old album would have signs of ageing irrespective of how it had been kept. Actually Frank's letter also seems remarkably clean for a 20 year old document, if you look at it with maximum zoom.
You may say "who cares" about all the above. All I can say is that I would care if I paid $50k - $100k for the album being offered today. It'll be interesting to see what it gets.
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1 2 3 who knows. It would be great if we had a collectors beatles catalog, seems where sumising until we get to some facts. I care I'm the kind of idiot that lays out this kind of cash. There's always fraudulent when money to be made. It would be alright if we could call frank and say what the go.
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