Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 10:43am

Not to even mention that the authenticator is probably juggling his own 11x14 photos to get signed.

There is supposed to be 100% certainty with In The Presence COA's. But ask the poor collector who bought that Joe DiMaggio autographed baseball 10 years ago, the one that was EYEWITNESSED by a PSA rep.

 

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on April 30, 2012 at 10:57am

I agree that the above scenario is set-up to fail. However, these "on-the-street" signings are chaotic.  Which lessens the chance that any one person can witness everything being signed.

I think I read where the authenticator and the dealer are best friends.  If that's the case, maybe that plays into the process.  I have no idea. 

 

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 11:01am

                               I SAW IT SIGNED COA HDAA

                      Humpty Dumpty Autograph Authenticators

We promise that this autograph, whoever it is, was signed by the star who is pictured. The owner of the autograph is a friend of ours so we swear that we may or may not have seen it signed but we "know" it to be good.

X,,,,,,,,,

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 30, 2012 at 11:03am

We are on page 7 and a lot of things have been discussed here but it comes down to this.  You have either an opinion, or a "signed in the presence of".  Once is subject to whoever is looking at it, and the outcome questionable, the other is 100%, if it is indeed "SIGNED IN THE PRESENCE OF".  Just because PSA had that nightmare with the DiMaggio's previously (I was a temporary victim), doesn't mean they are doing anything wrong in this case. But I do agree that the one seller with all of the "signed in the presence of" COA's certainly raises a huge red flag in this program, and based on the history with the DiMaggio's, demands an explanation from the seller and/or PSA.  Is PSA just taking this seller's "word" that they were signed in person?  I doubt it. But with all of the money that people spend with this company on authentication, they should be willing to address this directly and quickly. After all, if they are not doing anything unethical, then what is the big deal?

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 30, 2012 at 4:13pm

if you look at PSA's website, it is actually stated in the heading:

http://www.psacard.com/services/signedinthepresence.chtml

Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on April 30, 2012 at 4:21pm

Just a cotton pickin' minute...What on earth is an authenticator doing selling autographs?!?

I brought up this question millenia ago with Bobby Livingston and the "experts" who vet material at R&R while aty the same time consigning material there and selling goods from their own websites and stores.

Either you are an authenticator or a dealer...not both. There simply leaves too much room for hanky-panky, as this episode so vividly illustrates. 

And once again, PSA has shown (through their silence) their commitment to the hobby. I'd rather sell Hitler's mustache. 

Good on you Richard for fighting the good fight. Be careful...you may soon get tarred with the "Koschal" brush for saying anything against the pro-PSA cabal.

Permalink Reply by E.B.G. on April 30, 2012 at 5:11pm

I would agree Harry.  Even a patron saint would have a hard time being impartial under those circumstances.

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 11:44pm

On the surface perhaps but as long as the item is authentic and not being rubber stamped to make a "non-authentic" item  "authentic", I could care less about perception.  In this instance perception would not equal reality.  Last I knew a buyer can go anywhere there little heart desires.

Permalink Reply by Steve on April 30, 2012 at 6:18pm

Here is what I would to hear from PSA. I would like them to explain exactly how their "In The Presence" authentication works. Have them give a few examples of real world situations. How many authenticators/representatives are on hand, in the streets, at a certain location, at any given time. How quickly is the process completed? Can someone bring the rep the signed items a half hour after the fact? If these people all know each other, does that mean that the PSA rep trusts the agent since they are friendly with each other? How is one rep to be expected to keep track of all that is going on, especially if they are also having items signed? What is to keep a dealer from bringing a previously signed item with them, and claiming it was just signed and having the PSA rep authenticate it for them?

Permalink Reply by Chad B on May 2, 2012 at 8:07am

It would be beneficial to have authenticators on the street authenticating what they see if they were ethical and trusted. For example, this would be a nice way to authenticate the Pacino scribbles that are often for sale.  

The financial benefit to an authenticator selling an "in the  presence" coa to signatures they actually did not see (but trust the guy turning items in to them) signed would be hard to resist.

Permalink Reply by DB on May 2, 2012 at 9:16am

Mike, there are alot of good things you have pointed out as well as the fundamental flaws.  At one show, I had a psa/dna rep sitting right in front of the signers but even then he could not keep track of who was getting what in person as there were others who were either requesting stickers or dropping off items.  In that instance, a PSA/DNA cert for my items was just fine.   At a number of shows where PSA has had a presence I have yet to see a "signed" in the presence" cert being issued.  Doesn't mean it hasn't happened but haven't seen one until Simon brought up this thread.

What has been pointed out is that it appears the "signed in the presence" ones regardless of observations are questionable at best regardless of who has them as evidenced by the Harrison Ford ones.    This also doesn't mean that they are not authentic but the ITP if performed as has been your observation surfaces a highly questionable approach to certing ITPs.

Permalink Reply by Steve on May 2, 2012 at 4:02pm

Mike, I think it is easy to see what gets signed if you the authenticator ore not getting items signed yourself.  If your attention is focused on your items, as they should be, then you cannot give your full attention to that which is going on around you.  I do agree with you that I think the concept is a good one, it's just something that is unfamiliar to most of us.

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