Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by DB on April 29, 2012 at 4:27pm

Can't speak for steve but how dare you - you slacker, LOL (only kidding!) but on a serious note be very very careful who you call "apologists" as I certainly don't qualify for such a pristine title.

come to think of it - just recently an analysis of secretarial hestons resulted in a 40% error ratio on ebay.  Having said that, there is no time stamp of when and looking at them it would appear that some have reappeared from a prior analysis.

I believe that some of the questions are valid and need to be answered nor do I believe Cyrkin is any type of position to levarge ebay.  I do however believe Aring has shed some light on it.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on April 29, 2012 at 10:16pm

Richard,

Yes, it's that you worked to PSA/DNA, Richard. Why the job ended, I don't know, but you seem to have a chip on your shoulder about it. It shows in the posts on this site.

Feel free to share your knowledge of certain activities. Feel free to share your opinions on things.  But please don't hang anyone without evidence.

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 5:02am

Nice way Steve to deflect my questions.

I worked for them 10 or more years ago, believe me I have gotten over it. Gotten over the fact that even though we wanted to take our time examining items we were rushed and in one particular instance not allowed to stay for an extra day in California, when we specifically requested that we be allowed to stay, in order to complete our work properly.

 

Permalink Reply by Lou reves on April 29, 2012 at 4:12pm

sounds like they only take care of their friends? Thats why I DONT use PSA

Permalink Reply by David K on November 1, 2012 at 6:47pm

I had the same problem...I gave them expensive items I SAW signed (I saw 18 of 21 aigned in person)...and they DENIED them. I had a friend of mine who has a long term mutiple item "good relationship" with them who worked for HERITAGE auctions--resubmit the items a year later--the SAME items that they said "DID NOT PASS"...the ones submitted through Heritage to PSA (MY items--the SAME items they denied) got an immediate PSA sitcker!! (all but 2)! So...they DO seem to have a preferencial treatment system. Mind you ALL the autographs were REAL to begin with--as  I SAW all but 3 of 21 items signed and I know where the other 3 were obtained) .I do not have a big contract with them.when Heritage submitted they got  17 PSA stickers f the remaining 19 items! So they play favorites!@ the 2 items they never gave a sticker to..were eventually found authen tic via another COA company...(one being an OJ Simpson signed Jersey). Stange wys at PSA..playing favorites.

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 29, 2012 at 5:10pm

DB - I would never ever call you an apologist for PSA.

I think the apologists know who they are and they know who I am referring to.

But a company that authenticates an Ed "Delehanty" signature that helps result in a $30,000 sale,(correct spelling is Delahanty).

Authenticates George Bush autopens (when they have two right in front of them) (I spoke to the buyer of those two letters).

A company who gives a dealer in person COA's for Joe DiMaggio (I have written proof, though like I have stated that happened a long time ago with a different PSA employee) when they did not witness that signing and that dealer was noted by the FBI in their Operation Bullpen report for selling forgeries obtained from one of those arrested in Operation Bullpen.

A company that authenticates computer generated autographs (Ty Cobb cut signature, story is well documented on Net54 and Hauls of Shame) and 8x10 computer generated photos which were also sent to me, I determined they were computer generated, PSA authenticators did not, well why apologize for that company?

 

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on April 29, 2012 at 6:09pm

I bought one of those PSA "witnessed" DiMaggio balls on ebay about 10 years ago.  When I got it, the signature was awful, so I plugged the number into the PSA database and I was appalled at what I saw.  I seem to remember a block of numbers being "reserved" for in-person DiMaggio autographs, but they were not recorded for some reason.  I contacted the seller and got some bogus story about them being backed up, because he signed so many, I dont really remember the details, but I sent the ball back for a refund.  This must be what Richard is referring to.  

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 29, 2012 at 6:11pm

The time frame is correct.

The corporate personnel were different back then but has the same corporate mentality prevailed?

Mr Orlando was shown my proof a number of years ago at a card show. He was quite unhappy about it.

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 3:22am

Richard - once again we prove they make errors (and based on some of the ones u cite - you have to wonder what were they thinking) but the question still stands error ratio -vs- good ratio.   The only ones I have seen are 3 sample sizes analyzed on Charlton Hestons.   However, even there it is not a mark of are they getting better or worse.   Vanderhoven submitted a quick opinion on an obvious secretarial that they had previously certified and it came back as likely good.  That would be ONE indication that they have not improved in that specific instance. Said another way that is not statistically significant to form an opinon (other than are you kidding me!)

The more distressing part is the "handing out of in the presence of coas".   Aring has cited many instances where his first hand knowledge appears to support the notion of these PSA employees collecting while also having the opportunity to apply in person coas.

It would appear to me that if that is the case and they are not simply handing these out then the relationship between Schu45 and brian sobrero is not our concern.   Unless of course someone is simply handing out "in person coas).   If there are no HR policy restrictions on PSA Employees being "employees" of someone else who happens to sell on EBAY - that's fine too.  If there are restictions than it's an internal employee problem for PSA to deal with and again perhaps beyond our need to know unless there is something wrong with the items certed.

What concerns me is noone seems to want to answer some basic & simple questions which leads to more conjection and suspicions.

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 5:08am

Errors will always be made. That is part of the business.

However, when you are presented a handwritten letter from a baseball HOFer, where his name is MISSPELLED and you issue a COA for it, without even noting the misspelling in the COA, well what is that?  And the letter sells for $30,000?

I am citing the letter that was allegedly written by baseball HOFer Ed Delahanty. The letter was actually written by his business manager and signed Ed Delehanty. I guess all concerned just figured he did not know how to spell HIS OWN NAME. Sure, why not?

Permalink Reply by DB on April 30, 2012 at 5:57am

can't fix stupid Richard.  I've seen many misspellings along the way across alot of different places.  One item made it thru 3 different authentications & auction.

What isn't a simple error is missing the fopar on a signature especially when it sells for $30k.  Hopefully, the buyer realized this and recouped thier investment.

Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on April 30, 2012 at 6:02am

A $30K stupid mistake? Careless?

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