Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Hauser on October 18, 2009 at 9:44am

How? By doing what we are doing here. It's a start. I also write online articles on ezinearticles.com regarding various fakes and frauds I uncover. I would say do whatever it takes with whatever resources are available. For instance, I am tracking a business on eBay selling fake Obama autographs. When I see their listing, which is every other week, I report them to the eBay team. I hate to see someone spend their money on worthless crap. By the way, Roger, I'm a customer, having bought from you before because you sell honest items. (Free plug:-)

Permalink Reply by Dean Konop on October 19, 2009 at 12:03pm

The best way to defend against fakes is to get educated. No way is a signed Beatles lp worth only $100. Or a Washington signature done in sharpie marker. People have to be on their game to know when trouble is afoot. They have to do their research and think that everything could be a fake and see what makes their find worth the extra trouble to prove it is true.

It is tough to do but in the end I think the time and research a person does is worth it in the end.

Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on November 22, 2009 at 5:12pm

I too am fighting the fight on bogus autographs. There are many types that need to be STOPPED including secretary, autopen and second hand signed celebrity poop. Though these celebs may think they are being well intended, they all need to either sign themselves, or put an end to anyone and anything signing on their behalf. Fans can appriciate a polite refusal, in lieu of a bogus signature any day of the week.

Permalink Reply by Mr. Otter Bubotter on January 3, 2010 at 7:11pm

Roger is correct. He is fighting the fight for all of us. So if at any time we see or know something is wrong we need to report this to the UACC (www.uacc.org) or do what ever possible. If we choose not to, then why are we collecting autographs for?

Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on January 3, 2010 at 7:52pm

Fake autographs start with celebrities who choose not to sign both "on the streets", nor take part in any autograph conventions or book store signings, and/or offer no means whatsoever year after year by not selling signed items off their website. These celebs are actually encouraging those that sign and/or sell bogus autographs. It starts at the top. Crooks are crooks, .......and always will be until their market dries up. Write to these celebrities who take no part in signing anything, or offering no means to get anything signed, and let them know they are part of the problem. Write it and send it, post it and click it. This is a case where the pen and mouse (well you know the rest).

Permalink Reply by Markus Brandes on January 4, 2010 at 1:26pm

To educate the public had been the main reason why we established www.isitreal.com more than 5 years ago. Unfortunately the "autograph-war" between the dealers get into a new dimension which have the result that many people don't know what they should believe and turn up from autograph collecting. Every day new "battlefields" are opened. The one who never made a mistake in authentication should through the first stone.

However like mentioned in the autograph magazine article "Whistleblowers" there must be a responsibility from the autograph collectors themself as well. Autograph Collector's must change their mind from getting a huge "bargain" because it could me "maybe" authentic to the first though that it is a fake signature and get the proof from the opposite by collecting at least 10-15 examples before and get the security by matching examples that it will be most certainly authentic. If collector's change this small way of thinking they will fastly seen the difference and could decide from the stock of the dealer which one they can trust and which one better not.

The UACC had been mentioned before but I believe less than 10% of the complaints get a true action so the UACC Dealer programm is still not recommended. I like the bundle of good dealers like for example the PADA but there must be a serious independent ethic board and each dealer have to agree promptly take action if an autograph had been questioned from another knowledge autograph dealer. The Ethic Board complain the dealer and if a dealer get more than 3 complaints in one year he should be through out of the programm. No dealer like to complaint against another dealer as the result is this stupid autograph-war.

In my opinion Steve and Roger earn both my big respect. Roger Epperson is very knowledge and the difference between most others is that he is open to share his knowledge and stayed to mistakes. Steve through out a huge quantity of previous advertisers to protect the Autograph Community and bring the forgery problem to the public like you could see in the very good latest issue of the magazine.

However to "educate the public" is always a very sensible step as like I had to lean myself the criminal energy of forgers is huge and it is very easy that you do a mistake and educate the wrong site wile the quality of forgeries improve.

....so my answer is.

a) educate the public about the forgery problem but authentication guides are gift in the wrong hands.

b) A independent dealer program with rules accepted rules for each dealer, an authentication test and kind of insurance from the organization to the autograph customer

c) Responsibily from the customers. No each "Adidas" T-Shirt without "i" dot is a original brand T-Shirt so please don't support those forgery sellers. Make your homework else you please better write your autograph you want yourself instead of supporting the wrong site.

More than 60% of my daily work is spend for the autograph community. Keep together and share the joy for this wonderful hobby. Believe me your collection get a new quality if you decide most carefully and purchase only if you are sure that your first impression that you thought it is a fake turned the nice way and you are really happy to have the real thing in your collection.

Thank you
Markus

www.isitreal.com
www.autograph-club.org

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on January 5, 2010 at 4:57am

Thanks for the kind words. I always have helped out dealers and collectors but it’s a bit more difficult now. With the “autograph war” going on it’s hard to trust anyone because these idiots try to set you up. It’s like you used to be able to pump your gas then pay later but a few bad people ruined it for all of us. That’s what’s going on in the autograph world. These really bad guys will go to any length to try to set you up. You try to be a Good Samaritan and then you get attacked!

What I believe started this whole mess was EBay, for a while gave these forgers a license to steal for a long time. Now they are cleaning it up but it’s now moved to the cooperate level. This garbage is being mass produced and they use some “legal” sounding handwriting expert to hide behind. There needs to be laws against theft like this but it’s a slow process.

I have been and will continue my quest to expose and clean up this hobby that I love. It carries a lot of weight on my back everyday but in the end it will be worth it. I do have some good people behind me helping with the load but the more of us that stick together the stronger we can become. The easiest thing for the collector is not to support these forgers or the originations and clubs that try to keep them alive.

Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on January 5, 2010 at 7:36am

I too believe that if we as true fans and collectors don't fight the fight to clean up fake autographs, in years to come there will be more bogus autographs than real ones, everywhere. Isn't that part of the magic of walking through the HRCafe's is that there is this sense of, "WOW", so and so actually signed that? I know I feel it. Equally the same feeling at the R&R Hall of Fame. I would hate to have my kids or their kids loose that feeling because the real possibility of these signatures are fake and since all these artists are then dead, it's to late to fix the problem.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 5, 2010 at 7:43am

Got news for you Steve--there are already more fake autographs than real ones. That's why we have to get rid of the crooks.

Permalink Reply by Mr. Otter Bubotter on January 5, 2010 at 11:20am

OK here's my thought. Why don't we (Roger) and other dealers get the FBI involved. Obviously several federal and state laws are being broken here. Each state has a local FBI office and has officers that handle fraud. Maybe the professional dealers should contact them. There was a big FBI sting on sports memorabilia a few years back that caused a lot of damage. But that hasn't caused the RATS to drown, they just moved to a new ship. Unfortunately this is a game that will never end but at least we can set some hard rules down. And that is you'll get busted.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on January 7, 2010 at 2:27pm

Absolutely! It's hard to do but they do act from time to time. What you need are victims to come forward.

Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on January 13, 2010 at 9:21am

Of all the ideas I am reading on this thread to stop these bogus autographs, I still feel (perhaps I am the lone wolf at this) is education of how serious fake autographs have become to BOTH the celebrity and the purchasing fan/collector. Feel free to say I am living in a fantasy, but I have to believe that if celebs knew the extent of how bad it is that people are forging their signatures, more might be inclinded to do something about it (in person signings at pre arranged venues, website service, etc... ) Go ahead, call me a dreamer (I've been called worse).
http://www.stopthefakeautographs.vpweb.com/