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Andrew Jackson land grant

I know from prior posts that land grants signed after March 2, 1833 are secretarial. The question I have is are all land-grants signed before that date guaranteed to be signed by the president?

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Permalink Reply by Andrew Alderton on June 23, 2016 at 3:39am

That is my understanding. Anything before March 1833 is 100% authentic.

Permalink Reply by Lance D Gill on June 23, 2016 at 6:00am

Thank you for responding Andrew. I'm attaching a copy of the grant which is dated in 1832. Jackson's signature just doesn't look right to me. It makes me wonder if Donalson actually secretarily signed any grants BEFORE March 2, 1833..............

Attachments: No photo uploads here

Jackson Land Grant(2).PNG, 704 KB

Permalink Reply by Robin Banks on June 23, 2016 at 6:32am

Lance, I believe your land grant is a secretarial version of Jackson's.

Robin

Permalink Reply by Lance D Gill on June 23, 2016 at 7:05am

Thank you Robin. That is very curious if it's true. This means that contrary to law, a secretary signed a land grant for Jackson prior to the date the law permitted this. If this 1832 grant was signed by a secretary, then this essentially calls into question the authenticity of all land grants signed before or after March 2, 1833. The prior discussion seems to have been that after March 2, 1833, ALL grants were signed by a secretary. Conversely, this implied that ALL grants signed prior to March 2, 1833, where signed personally by the President. These beliefs are apparently wrong if this 1832 Jackson grant was signed by his secretary and not him.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Alderton on June 23, 2016 at 8:28am

Doesn't to it say "signed May 1st 1837"? Not 1832

Permalink Reply by Andrew Alderton on June 23, 2016 at 8:42am

If it does say May 1st 1837 it would be unusual because Jackson left office on March 4th of that year. Perhaps there was a back log and since it was sold while Jackson was President they had to sign his name? Curious what others think.

Permalink Reply by Lance D Gill on June 23, 2016 at 8:51am

See attached photo showing the hand written date as "thirty two". I thought the other date looked like 1837, but Jackson, as you said, was not president then and A. J. Donalson wouldn't have been there still either.

Attachments: No photo uploads here

Jackson Land Grant(4).PNG, 1 MB

Permalink Reply by Andrew Alderton on June 23, 2016 at 10:24am

This is a strange one. It is definitely not Andrew Jackson's Signature. Could it be perhaps a replacement when the original was lost? I seriously doubt there was a 5 year back log of Land Grants that they got to signing 5 years later. I remember reading that Presidents spent hours of their day signing these and Jackson hated to do it. thus why he asked in 1832 to allow for secretarial signings and congress passed it in 1833. Again, I would love to here from others on this it is interesting and strange.

Here is an article I came across.

https://scrc1.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/when-the-president-signed-ev...

Permalink Reply by Lance D Gill on June 23, 2016 at 11:21am

Yes, it is very strange and very disturbing. I believed previously that if a land grant was signed before March 2, 1833, it was guaranteed to be presidentially signed. The date of this grant is 1832 per the written word. I never heard of a grant being signed on a date other than the date stated and it cannot be possible that Jackson sign this on May 1, 1837 when he was no longer president. If this grant is signed by a secretary before March 2, 1833, then I would argue it was invalid. Further if this happened, then it is clear we cannot blindly assume all land grants signed before March 2, 1833 are not signed by secretaries.

Permalink Reply by Robin Banks on June 23, 2016 at 11:41am

Lance,

That is a bit strange. I hope someone can shed some light on your land grant question.

Here is my Andrew Jackson Land Grant signed in 1830.

Permalink Reply by Andrew Alderton on June 23, 2016 at 12:47pm

I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I'm quite sure that this is not signed by President Jackson. My hypothesis is perhaps the property owner purchased this land in 1832 when Jackson was president. At that time, he was issued a Land Grant that was actually signed by President Jackson. A few years later, for whatever reason, maybe he was selling the property or,they may have lost his original grant. He then asked for a new one which I assume Government could find a copy of it or in records somewhere. My thinking is this new one was issued, and because the land was purchased in 1832, the grant showed Jackson as President they may have written the transaction date with the original purchase time(1832). But from what I can see of it. It clearly states that this was signed in 1837. Granted I understand that it has written 1832 on the document because that was the date the parcel of land was sold.Even though VanBuren was president, they used a secretary to affix Jackson's signature because the document had his name on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is even though the Land Grant says it is 1822 the year this land sold,the signature says it was signed in 1837. Thus, my assumption is, anything that was signed before 1833 is still legit. Just my thoughts.

Permalink Reply by Paulrichards on December 18, 2016 at 1:00pm

Your land grant is definitely NOT signed by Jackson answering the question that started this thread