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Willie Mays "Say Hey" hologram source?

I know some (most? all?) signatures associated with this hologram are assumed bad. I did a quick search but couldn't find anything, and, with the Hollywood Show running a sale on them, I figured I'd ask outright: where did they come from? Did the foundation legitimately provide autographs with the hologram or are they a strictly second-hand market thing? Were the autographs bearing the hologram that were acquired directly via the foundation good, assuming there were any?

This is a subject where, especially over time, messages get muddled (see: the number of people who believe that Scoreboard & Mounted Memories certed & sold fakes). So I'm interested in the actual history of the hologram.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on April 3, 2020 at 11:38am

I purchased mine from Steiner Sports.

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Permalink Reply by Mike White on April 3, 2020 at 11:48am

Have you ever seen or heard of one that came directly from the foundation? I've found people talking about how Willie used to sign TTM through them (for his standard, large fee) but I couldn't find anyone mentioning that the items came affixed with the hologram.

It's worth noting with Steiner that their value is as a first-party source. Before they got bought out, they did buy collections & pieces second-hand with what they believed to be solid authentication. Anything that's dual certed from them, as far as I've been able to tell, may as well not carry the Steiner cert at all.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on April 3, 2020 at 12:46pm

I am not familiar with how his foundation works. I only know that I purchased mine from Steiner Sports at a time when the “Say Hey” hologram was not being questioned. I also understand that they are basically a middleman with some of the autographs that they sell, including some of mine.

I read through the other discussions that you posted. The biggest concern seems to be with the volume of autographs including the “Say Hey” hologram on the market. That seems to have been the reason behind JSA and PSA refusing to authenticate them in the future. Why not just authenticate each autograph based on its own individual appearance? What upsets me the most about the conspiracy theories is that they have the potential of harming a legitimate foundation without merit.

One last thing. I have a relative who is a celebrity, and I was with him last year when he was signing a stack of photographs prior to his public signing. He must have signed hundreds in one hour, with me sitting there and distracting him. I was also watching others sign sheets of stickers that will one day be placed on trading cards, even after the signer is no longer with us. Willie Mays could have easily signed thousands of autographs for his foundation in his retirement. I say we just go by the appearance of the autograph itself, and pay less attention to the sticker that is affixed to it. I own a Monte Irvin autographed photo that he personalized and signed for me in person. It has a GAI sticker on it, because they happened to be at the show that I was attending on that particular day. Many would call it a forgery based solely on the hologram.

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Permalink Reply by Mike White on April 3, 2020 at 1:00pm

Those many who would call a GAI a forgery based solely on the hologram don't include me--and that's exactly what I'm getting at. There's a difference between GAI, who were incompetent, and J. DiMaggio, who knew what they were doing. GAI means "be careful". "J DiMaggio" means "fake". Where is "Say Hey" on that scale?

Yes, the claims have the ability to harm confidence in genuine articles and the foundation (if it still exists). Which, again, is the point of this thread. I'll point out that it's still yet to be established that these holograms were ever even issued by the foundation.

And, yes, a lot of celebrities sign a lot of items to be stockpiled.

But this thread isn't about "a lot of celebrities". It's about Willie Mays.

And if there's one thing that Willie Mays absolutely hates doing, by pretty much all accounts, it's signing autographs.

The only thing Willie Mays likes more than he hates signing autographs is getting paid a significant amount of money for signing autographs.

My problem isn't the volume. I feel like I made that clear. My problem is the volume AND the price. Willie Mays isn't sitting down and signing a bunch of photos for pittance. So when a number of people have stacks of these photos signed by Willie Mays, and they're selling them for $20-$30, that means one of three things:

-Willie Mays signed thousands of photos for less than $20-$30 each

-Someone/some people in this chain are taking a huge loss, and flooding the market to pretty much ensure that loss

-Something hinky is going on

The fact that people who should know don't think the signatures look right is immaterial to that. But just because it's immaterial doesn't mean it's not the case. It all adds up to paint a pretty clear picture.

If this was Bob Feller, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But it's not. It's Willie Mays.

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on April 3, 2020 at 3:54pm

Allow me to present a fourth possibility. Willie Mays signed thousands of autographs in his retirement. His foundation affixed “Say Hey” holograms to all of them. They have since flooded the market. Nobody purchased them, because most people have no idea who Willie Mays is. That is a sad realization, but it is in fact true.