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Authenticity is Everything
is psa dna / jsa worth it ?
every time i have used psa quick opinion on ebay it usually comes back "not very likely." Is everything on ebay not authenticated fraudulent? Also, can psa dna possibly be correct all the time ? I doubt it. some listings they have given a negative quick opinion are from power sellers most uacc registered and some who have been in business for 10 + years. I have contacted these sellers , most of whom say psa dna are ripping off novices in the hobby like myself and are making an effort to have people buy directly from their auctions, and many times a celebrities autograph can vary a bit , especially if they sign something in haste as opposed to a signing event. Im not sure which online businesses to trust , and even to trust psa dna's opinions . Are there any truly 5 star dealers on line or on ebay ? i am not sure what to think about the process as a whole . Someone posted that they forged a signature and sent it to psa dna and it got their approval, and he did it with the sole purpose of proving them to be in effective at best in their field. Should i only buy if it already has a certificate or not, and who do i buy from ? What is the best way to get an autograph and from whom if you cant get it directly from the signer personally, and is jsa or psa dna a good business to employ ?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dan Gregory on
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Personally I have mixed opinions on both PSA / DNA & JSA.
Out of about 100 items obtained personally PSA / DNA have authenticated about 85% as authentic and the others as "not very likely"
However, JSA have been awful for me and have failed around 60% of items.
These items were all obtained personally so there was no question of them not being authentic and I was some what shocked by the refusals by JSA.
Nowadays if I am buying autographs I tend to do my research, check the signature against other examples etc and go with my gut instinct and don't bother with authenticators anymore,
There are a lot of fakes out there but enjoy collecting and do your research and you should be fine.
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Permalink Reply by Mike White on
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If I had to choose, I'd prefer a company that fails authentics than one that authenticates fakes.
Granted, I shouldn't have to choose, but your negative reaction to JSA is exactly why I prefer them to PSA.
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The greater majority of signed items on ebay are not authentic regardless of who or what they say.
The 2 TPAs you cite are a good barometer but not an end all be all and "powersellers" reactions as stated are to be expected. We had a UACC RD try to pass off a secretarial heston and listed it with a heston signing (which he did but not for that one) proof photo.
Vanderhoven (from a world far far away) resubmitted a classic Gleason that was a secretarial that PSA had previously certed thru quick opinion and it came back "likely authentic". PSA/DNA on my last sampling provided to EBAY on Heston Secretarials certified by PSA/DNA had an error ratio, at that time, of 40%. In that mix were powersellers trying to simply sell garbage but have the argument, "that psa yadda yadda yadda".
Barometers are good things to have and if it doesn't get by a tpa then you have a decision to make. Regardless, of those that do have and are authentic there is an increase in overall value on some things.
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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it comes down to this. at the peak of the TPA fever, they were considered the true experts, and if an item carried their sticker, the supposition was that it was indeed authentic. as the business grew, and they started expanding their "capabilities", numerous errors in opinion were documented. Bottom line is this. If you are a novice, then their opinion most likely will carry more weight and have a better chance than yours. But if you are experienced, and study certain autograph styles based on know exemplars, your opinion in most cases will be as valuable if not more so, than theirs. I personally do not use them.
no one can be an expert on everyone, but that is what they are trying to portray. and while they do get a high percentage correct, the errors themselves make it difficult to put 100% faith in anything they authenticate.
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T8Hof; Two notable statements; o Bottom line is this. If you are a novice, then their opinion most likely will carry more weight and have a better chance than yours. o no one can be an expert on everyone, but that is what they are trying to portray. and while they do get a high percentage correct, the errors themselves make it difficult to put 100% faith in anything they authenticate.
where the discussion ensues imo is on these two; 0 But if you are experienced, and study certain autograph styles based on know exemplars, your opinion in most cases will be as valuable if not more so, than theirs. o they do get a high percentage correct, the errors themselves make it difficult to put 100% faith in anything they authenticate.
I know when vanderhoven was here we had some good discussions on specific entries. We need alot more of that and not just focus on Mickey Mantle! We need better sampling sizes not just the onesy & twosies that we so often do around here. The latter is fine but it flies in the face of the "high percentage correct, the errors themselves ". If we are gonna paint GA as missing Mantle consistently then what are the complete numbers as an example?
the other point is the "experienced" one. I sway back and forth as sometimes I think I have it and othertimes step on the landmine! There are many who never get it and rely "solely" on the certification. Recall Aring's comment on the guitar that she had ACE cert., although he knew full well it wasn't authentic and told her so only to be met with - who are you & what do you know.
For the novice or someone who can't do the homwork - if PSA/DNA responds that it's not "authentic" on a quick opinion then go with it unless there is iron clad provenance (forget the ones u got in person and are trying to have cert'd as I exclude that group for this commentary) then go with that decision. And don't buy the "powerseller's" arguments as there are very few that have pulled thier listings even when confronted from knoweledgeble buyers.
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and PSA isn't the only one or place - here is one from a local craigslist listing with a cSC Collectable COA. I think I'd be safe on the call on this one ;-)
MICKEY MANTLE & JOE DiMAGGIO AUTOGRAPHED PHOTO WITH COA.
IM ASKIN $500 or b/o
I MAY DO A TRADE!
BUT ITS GOT TO BE GOOD!
978-xxx-xxxx
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I was thinking of bidding $5.00 for the frame. I actually emailed this seller to see what the response was but as expected "nada" and I'm sure what does he know. So I immediately took out my own posting for $1.00 and depicted the EBAY Banned List in addition to pointing out this particular post as a reason why "novices" et all need to be more cautious when dealing with a craigslist.
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this reminds of the time that I referenced earlier, when I purchased a "witnessed" or "ITP" Dimaggio ball, that turned out to be horrendous, so I sent it back. but the holder was awesome, so I actually bought just the holder from the guy, and when I had a real DiMaggio ball later on, i just put it in there.
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Permalink Reply by CEE GEE on
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I would buy that for a max of 10 bucks for the frame and then make a video of me ripping that thing right in pieces and put in on youtube...
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Terrier and DB have made great points on here and I agree with both of them 100%
Ok...here is how I feel on this...
NO ONE AUTHENTICATION SERVICE IS CORRECT 100% OF THE TIME
As far as PSA/DNA ripping novices collectors off that would make no sense because the authenticators profit the MOST on the novice collectors because they want opinions so any one that ever told you that really makes no sense to me...
If you are a novice collector...then buy all means research and education is the solid way to get authentic autos OR go search out shows were live signings are going to be and either go yourself OR send your items to get signed and mailed back to you...As far as solid sellers with 10000 feedbacks and power seller titles that is nothing to really go by...As an experienced collector with over 25 years collecting when I see something that looks fishy I immediately check the other listings and that for me can determine if the items for the most part are good or bad...If I seller sells 100 bad autos at 99 cents and they all sell to unsuspected buyers and they get all sold for cheap prices because all these purchaser think there getting a bargain well then there is an automatic 100 positive feedbacks the seller will receive...So this is something for me that holds Zero weight...
I have used Quick Opinion dozens of times...and also had used JSA in person at shows so as experienced as I am I respect there opinions...as far as in person signed items that fail...this is a totally different story....I have 100s of in person autos that are not authenticated...whats the sense...I know there real and I saw them signed with my own eyes...
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CEE GEE, I am with you on the in person stuff. As would be most logical collectors. the ones that send in person items for "authentication" are really just trying to increase the value for resale. I think years ago, that was more the case than it is now. The only time I buy JSA or PSA items is when the price is right, and it just so happens to be certed. I never buy an auto BECAUSE it has the cert.
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