Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Chad B on March 25, 2013 at 6:48am

I don't know the signatures of either group but would like you to receive an answer. Should be an interesting discussion.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 7:39am

Thanks for the post Chad.

I don't need any type of answer necessarily because I would bet money on the lack of authenticity of these items.  My purpose is to present the fact that what is considered one of the most reputable auctioneers on the planet is auctioning fakes.  

The item I called BS on a few years ago came with provinence from not only Southebys auction house but from a alleged reputable collector who allegedly acquired the signatures.  This is the item RR eventually had to admit was fake.  Anyone can say anything and the provinence of the current Clash item up for auction is irrelevant.

Due to their reputation people are bidding on and paying serious money for some of these things and I find it disgusting and damaging to our hobby.

There have been upwards of a dozen or more Clash and Pretenders items put up for auction on RR in the last few years since I called them on one of their fakes. I have e-mailed them on a couple of occasions regarding an item or two and outright told them that they are auctioning a fake. Bobby just gives me a polite response essentially thanking me but indicating that they have complete confidence in Roger Epperson's abilities and knowledge. Pathetic really.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 8:34am

I should add at this juncture that I don't feel all Clash items auctioned have been questionable in my humble opinion as there have been a really nice Clash item or two put up.  One in particular I remember was a PR photo of Strummer, Simonon and Jones signed by all three that was gorgeous and went for around $1K if memory serves.  However, some of the Clash and Pretenders items more recently are highly questionable and the sterling reputation of RR should not hinge on one person's "authentication".   One Pretenders items, a pink card allegedly signed by all four original members, went almost bidless a while back and sold for just over $100 if I remember correctly.  It just looked bad.  C'mon... I'm certainly not implying Epperson is doing this on purpose at all but wonder why some of these items are receiving his approval.

I am concerned that one of the most reputable auction houses on the planet is auctioning a few highly questionable items as it is not only damaging to their reputation in my eyes but to our hobby in general as I say.  I'd expect to see some of these things on eBay but certainly not on RR.

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on March 25, 2013 at 8:56am

The Pretenders card you are talking about was not shown to me prior to the auction and did not state that I pre-certified it.  Once it was questioned it was shown to me and I told them it was not authentic.  As for The Clash, I am very well versed on them and all of the different signature styles over the eras.  I will stand behind my opinions on any of the Clash items that have been sold through RR.  Was there any ther Pretenders items you are questioning as there have been a few sold as of late that I did look at?

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 9:24am

"The Pretenders card you are talking about was not shown to me prior to the auction and did not state that I pre-certified it.  Once it was questioned it was shown to me and I told them it was not authentic."

Yet this item remained up for auction after you gave it a fail if I remember correctly...

I never comented on this item to RR or anyone else, interesting that someone else did.

I was not asserting that you authenticated this particular pink card or other Pretenders items necessarily, only that RR chose to auction them in these cases.  Sorry for the lack of clarity.

I don't follow items closely enough on RR or keep any records of items I have issue with so can't give you any examples.   I only recall looking at items in the past and all I could think to myself was WTF? 

Again, I'm just some dummy on the internet who's been collecting Chrissie, Martin (and other members of The Pretenders over the years), Joe (through to The Mescaleros), Mick (Clash through B.A.D., Carbon/Silicon), Topper, Paul, etc. for over 30 years myself...

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 8:56am

The two items in question.

http://rrauction.k2imgs.com/content/images/larger/3282/3282560_1.jpg

http://rrauction.k2imgs.com/content/images/larger/3289/3289491_1.jpg

Hopefully another person or two who knows these signatures (other than anyone from PSA/DNA & RR) can give their assessment.

I can't imagine a knowledgeable collector touching these things but I'm just some dummy on the internet...

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on March 25, 2013 at 10:44am

These two items are without question authentic.  I now know the skill level I am dealing with.  Please also note that; yes you did "assert" that I authenticated this item as your quote states "Roder Epperson authenticates fake Clash and Pretenders items".  You also don't remember correctly as the item was pulled and did not sell.  You can't go out making "blanket" statements about me or any auction house without knowing what you are talking about and proving your point. 

Permalink Reply by Chad B on March 25, 2013 at 10:54am

Roger, he said Roder Epperson did that, not you. Roder is your sinister, untrained doppelganger.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 11:14am

My sincere apologies to you and/or RR for any inaccuracies in my statements, I am more than willing to admit if I was wrong or applied undue responsibility to some of these items.  My original comments on the Clash item removed from RR and criticism of some Pretenders items auctioned are still patent.  I did not assert you authenticated that pink card but had fairly good recollection of other items in the past you may have, hence the reason for referring potentially to another item or two in that statement.

If our opinions differ then so be it and unfortunately experienced analysis and opinion is all authentication is.  Your endorsement is unquestionable for people and I never intended to make blanket statements.  For that I am sorry. 

Again, my apologies for any misstatements/false "accusations" as applicable and thanks for taking part. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 25, 2013 at 11:59am

Hi Dee,

Welcome to Autograph Magazine Live. Your discussion will not be removed, but to be fair, please back up these claims you made:

1) That RR has become virtually infamous for auctioning fake Clash and Pretender items.
2) That RR has one fake of each up for auction right now.
3) That essentially, Roger Epperson doesn't know what he's doing when it comes to authenticating these bands.
4) That the forum Markus Brandes ran was shut down because you brought up this subject. (Markus is a member here. Just post a comment in his page asking him to confirm your claim.)

Please post some of your Clash and Pretender band signed pieces, too, so members can determine if you know what you're looking at.

It's important not to make potentially damaging claims without being able to back them up. RR, Roger and the site itself are often attacked by members of the forgery industry hiding under the cover of anonymity. I would hate to have you looked at as one of them if it isn't true.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 1:39pm

Thanks Steve,

1)  Strictly my opinion and at least two reasons to perhaps give this at least some credence have already been referenced, pardon the hyperbole if that's how it's interpreted.

2)  I wasn't there when they were signed but it's my opinion they are not authentic which is why I was/am hoping that others who know these signatures can comment.  None of them look quite right to me and that is only my opinion. 

3) I never said that and even experts in one's field can make a mistake.  It is simply a matter of his opinion versus mine and naturally I have no credibility unlike Roger.

4) I cannot possibly prove such a thing and in speculating, as I said, interesting coincidence.

These are the only relevant scans I have on my computer right now.  A recent (6-7 year old) Black Market Clash and a Strummer from 1981.  Would be happy to know what you think, even if these are thought to be forgeries.  ;)

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/blackmarketclash.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/842/strummer.jpg/

Oh and a 2-3 year old Chrissie

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/chrissiehynde.jpg/

Sorry that's all I have to post right now.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 25, 2013 at 2:45pm

Re:  2)

Chissi (not Chrissie)..?

You're kidding me, right?

I don't know about anyone else but I've never seen Chrissie forget an "r"... Sometimes peaked, sometimes squared but from my experience it's always been there.

Then again, I'm just some virtually anonymous dummy on the internet.

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