Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Xperttexpert on March 26, 2013 at 6:35pm

fine job roger. booya, amen!

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 26, 2013 at 6:54pm

Interesting how one of those appears to be a U.S. Sire records release and another a U.K. pressing. I guess they shipped some over from the U.K. to sign and send to radio stations or vise versa? Two signings with the same pens on different sides of the pond?

Red pen means it's authentic does it? How do we know these weren't done some afternoon by someone using the same pens?

Do you have documentation or other proof of these 300 signed albums because I'd never heard of it and can find no information on it.  I'd appreciate it.

I've one and seen a few more of her signatures from 1980 and her signature was almost identical to hers now. The signatures on those albums are not it. The Honeyman-Scott is way off on both and the Farndons show inconsistencies, misalignments, etc.

Also interesting that the sigs on those albums look identical to the pink card that was removed from RR yet is identical to other Pretenders 1 albums that have been showing-up. I guess everyone is getting rid of theirs for a hundred bucks or two despite there only being ~300 allegedly?

I wish I had mine with me, a picture or a scan but I know Mae wouldn't mind me using this from the Pretenders Facebook and it is real circa 1980 if memory serves.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/432193_37252...

The story about the signed copies being mailed-out to record stations is great and the red ink is compelling, too bad the signatures look like someone was trying pretty hard to get them down and don't match authentic signatures I've seen. Almost like the same person sat down with a stack of records and well...

I'm still calling BS on the two items in question and don't care at all what anyone thinks in here. The Clash album on RR right now is beyond questionable in my opinion and my record for spotting fakes on RR and elsewhere is pretty damn good. Like the one I got removed once upon a time with Cinderella story provenance and like numerous others in different forms that have shown-up recently since that I couldn't have been bothered to comment on only to receive a polite brush-off from Bobby.

Joe loved signing, I never got one and have never seen an authentic Strummer that looked like a drunk chimpanzee put it down as in the example in question (and others on RR recently). Didn't matter how rushed or tired he was or how many he signed and some nights it went into the hundreds I'm sure.

I never saw authentic signatures like this in over 30 years of collecting and I'm not about to accept them as authentic or be told so now. I don't care who it is.

I'm just a long-time collector who's seen all these people sign multiple times (aside from Honeyman-Scott, Farndon and Chimes) and have a bunch of examples, from in-person encounters and purchases, all consistent with each other and markedly different from the ones sown here in numerous technical regards. One that has gotten a fake removed from one of the premier auction houses on the planet, an item that Roger stood behind 100% even after it was removed and deemed fake by RR themselves due to being failed by someone else.  I'd be interested to know who gave it the fail and if this was in fact the case or if RR just removed it to avoid controversy?  I'm not authenticating anything so others can make money from it, I'm not claiming to be an expert, I'm not going to be responsible for anyone buying or winning an item that is the least bit sketchy if I have any doubt.

A couple of others here claim to have gotten clash signatures and that they are "familiar" with Pretenders signatures but absolutely no comments on the two items in question. Why is that?

What this thread has shown me is that our hobby has degenerated into blind acceptance of anything a select few "expert" wants to deem authentic with regards to these two bands and there is very little question of true authenticity otherwise. It has also shown me the kind of "skills" being applied and that if one is after an authentic Clash or Pretenders item anywhere, one had better know your stuff because authentication has become an utter joke with regards to Clash and Pretenders evidently.

I wouldn't be surprised if nobody knows what authentic Clash and Pretenders signatures look like eventually with all the crap being given the thumbs up these days.

That is all.

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on March 27, 2013 at 4:55am

"Appears to be a US release"?  Please inform us how you can tell the difference from the cover.  Please don't tell me it's from that little sticker you see on some.  That is barely a sticker.  They were all UK LP's and all of the ones I have seen have been promo copies.  Also since they signed roughly 300 copies their signatures would probably be a bit abbreviated after the first few.

Also, because you didn't hear about this signing of the albums means it didn't happen?  I'm sure someone got fired for not sending you the memo.

I highly doubt you ever got any of these bands signatures in their early years and have no exemplars of ones you got to compare with.  I did get them all back then.

You also state that these albums look like the autograph page that was in RR Auction; do you have the image to post and compare or are you going from memory again?

This will be the end of my posting on this discussion as I have backed up my opinion and I'm not going to change your mind.  Good luck collecting.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 27, 2013 at 5:06pm

Well, they appear to be different runs of the album and I am sincerely interested to know the history behind this signing you speak of. If they did a sitting with 300 albums one would naturally and logically imagine them to all be the same. Not that it matters because from the looks of it the similarities between the infamous pink card and these albums are eery. Anyway, you don't have anything more to say about the signing so that's fine.

You doubt I got sigs back then which is fine also, I don't care if anyone believes me because I can't just conjure-up images half way around the world from home.

You know what that pink card looked like very well, I don't have a image of it luckily for you and I am going on memory which is still pretty sharp. My experience is not trivial and I'm comfortable with it enough to make these claims in the first place.

I don't need or want my mind changed, it would be nice if things like this current Clash album didn't litter RR anymore though. That's not up to me unfortunately however, I have no control over that other than to air my feelings in disapproval.

Your opinion of more than one Clash item has been "unimpressive" so I have no reason to believe it will be trustworthy going forward with regards to Clash or Pretenders items. On the contrary, this thread has been highly educational and although I don't want to push the point any further, I feel saddened that our hobby and the authentication of Clash and Pretenders items is being compromised to this extent.

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 27, 2013 at 6:10pm

...and my god get a load of those Mick Jones signed lyrics up for auction.  Was remiss in even mentioning that nightmare.  Oh, and authenticated by guess who?

http://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=980

What an absolute frickin' joke.  At least everyone has had the sense not to go near it so far unlike the poor schmucks lining-up to flush their money on that album.

I'm going to start keeping screenshots of these spectacles because I find each one utterly objectionable and absurd.

Sad.  Very, very sad.

Permalink Reply by wascher on March 28, 2013 at 5:09am

Dee

You blew off a question not too long ago by Steve C asking why you aren't using your real name--you flipped the switch on the question, avoiding it.  Care to reveal who you are????  I'm very curious honestly.... for the following reasons....

Nobody joins a site, and within 24 hours posts a blast at someone/some place without having a personal beef.   #1 - it usually takes someone a little while to familiarize themselves with a site to know where and how to post (you joined the forum, immediately joined a group and let him have it).  #2 - usually someone doesn't join a forum or site and go in blasting on their first post.  They join a forum, introduce themselves, talk a little with folks, get to know people and then offers opinions - not insults. 

So for the 2nd time, how about using your real name?  Why hide behind a fake name?  If you want to call people out or be insulting of them --- I think its only fair you get called out and asked who you really are?  Otherwise your opinions (from a fake name) really mean nothing - wouldn't you agree?

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 28, 2013 at 7:46pm

"Otherwise your opinions (from a fake name) really mean nothing - wouldn't you agree?"

Absolutely

I have been called-out despite a fake name, Roger has demonstrated not only his tact and patience but expertise in proving that to an extent.

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on March 28, 2013 at 6:41am

For the collectors out there I am posting these two images for more exemplars, one is a magazine photo and the other is another LP from the signing.  (appears to have been done earlier in the signing as the signatures are "fuller).  Please not the all came from ol photocopies I have.

 

Permalink Reply by Dee Ranger on March 28, 2013 at 7:12pm

Those are 4 very nice examples above.

Listen, I am prone to hyperbole and getting carried away, I never meant to outright accuse anyone of anything.   I cannot express how sorry I am for having conducted myself in this way and don't expect to be forgiven.  The tone of my post and false accusations were un-called for, highly disrespectful and ill-conceived.  It is evident that Roger is indeed a class act regardless for entertaining my BS and RR didn't deserve any of this either. 

It is my due responsibility to retract any false claims and statements and warrants a sincere apology to Roger and RR for my words and behavior in the blog.  I don't know if that is even remotely satisfactory at this point but it has to be said and that is all I can do.

Any issue I might still have with an item or two is neither here nor there at this point as I am infinitley more ashamed of myself and regretful of offensive statements made about roger and RR regardless of what is authenticated or auctioned. 

I'm truly sorry to all on here and only wish I could turn back the clock and make a proper discussion of it instead of being offensive and accusatory.  I have shamed myself in an attempt to get to the truth about some of these items and I will not post again.   Perhaps maybe some will even find a way to forget I ever came in here and accept my apologies as it is with much remorsefulness that I write this.

  

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on March 29, 2013 at 2:31pm

Dee,

Thank you for being so honest. Now that you've learned more about the hobby, stay around and learn more.

A Ripoff Report was posted in your name based on your opening statement of this discussion. I see that you have rebutted it and said you did not post it. Fraudulent posts like that are examples of the deceit we deal with all the time.

Permalink Reply by Josef R on March 30, 2013 at 1:40pm

What is the most important thing to me, as to a collector? To believe. And I believe in the professionalism and credibility of RRauction - it is one of the best auction companies in all over the world. I see every day fakes of signatures of Czech (Dvorak, Smetana, Havel, Heyrovsky,...) or Russian (Gorbatchew, Stalin,...) personalities but I have never seen one in RR. Never. No one. And this world is full of Havel´s or Gorbatschew´s fakes...

Roger Epperson in not a robot, not a computer, he is just a man. If you think he is wrong, I am sure RR will give your money back. It is the second most important think to me...

If you are looking for the best European company - try "Stargardt Autographenhandlung" in Berlin. There is no one in Europe with so high credit, I believe only in this one very old company...

Your question was: "Has anyone else noticed that RR Auction has become virtually infamous for auctioning fakes?" My answer is: "No, no one who understand to this bussines."

And listen Dee - I can see this forum, nobody removed it. I think you are wrong in more things...

Steve, a lot of greetings to you. Please, if need - correct my text, thx :-)

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