Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Randy on October 18, 2013 at 9:54am

How would he defend himself?

He sells only items that are authenticated by the two most highly respected third party authenticators in the US. Their LOAs are accepted by the largest auction houses in the US that sell hundreds of millions of dollars a year in autographs.

Do you really think Sothebys, Christies, Heritage, and the like would sell autographs that they think have a 25% chance of being fake?

Yes,  JSA and PSA/DNA make some mistakes and sometimes a collector gets taken. My only point is that it is very likely that an average collector who is a novice at best and has no desire to become an expert has a very high probability of getting an authentic autograph if they stick with these two companies.

Mr. Zipper, Steve Zarelli,  is the foremost authority on space and aviation autographs and he consults for JSA. I guarantee he will not claim to be infallable in his area of expertise but I would take his opinion over any else's on the planet on space and aviation autographs.

I realize this forum is primarily a highly specialized and knowledgeable group of collectors who may well be able to make their own accurate assessments of autographs but pointing out an occasional purported mistake by the most legitimate TPAs will make novices who join this forum and will never become knowledgeable enough to purchase legitimate autographs turn away from the hobby.

It is obvious we are going to have to agree to disagree on this subject and I certainly realize that on this forum it appears I am in a small minority who has respect for what these companies do. 

I cannot imagine spending 8 hours a day 5 days a week looking at random exemplars of hundreds or thousands of autographs and doing my best to get the correct authentication.

On this forum, it is a hobby for most of us, not a job. We can spend a hour or so looking and get back to our lives. Authenticators cannot do that.

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Permalink Reply by JPC3342 on October 18, 2013 at 10:11am

Like they says if it's psa or jsa it's real lol

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on October 18, 2013 at 12:37pm

If he is honorable he should defend himself. If not it would be best for him to stay silent. Psa loses credibility if they are rubberstamping for their "buddies".

Permalink Reply by JPC3342 on October 18, 2013 at 10:12am

If it's psa or jsa ppl don't care they will buy

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Permalink Reply by JPC3342 on October 17, 2013 at 8:32pm

Like eBay says: if it's jsa or psa it's real and can't be reported lol

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Permalink Reply by AC on November 7, 2013 at 4:21pm

So a few people backed PSA up on this we guess who the seller is. If they do these bulk authentication services for these type of sellers with rubber stamp they do not deserve to be classified as a good authenticator they should be known as a money grabbing company as that is all they are doing here.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on November 7, 2013 at 5:01pm

I have been curious about the PPC relationship with PSA for quite a while. They had some suspicious McCartney signed PSA stuff I wish I could post.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on November 7, 2013 at 6:04pm

Looks like Ruth signed it after Ott,Fox,Mantle,Mathews maybe with same pen used by banks,Mccov. Good old Willie mays would sign over the "babes" signature.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on November 7, 2013 at 6:32pm

At the time it was auctioned, it was not questioned. It came with Barry Halper's personal assurance that he got the Ruth and Foxx(which is also bad) personally. 

At the time of the auction, you could have had no better provenance than Barry Halper's word. We now know differently. Mike Guiterrez got duped by Halper on this one.

The question is would they auction it again today as 100% authentic and the answer is a resounding "NO" because neither JSA nor PSA/DNA would certify the Ruth or Foxx.

This forum overall appears to have a low regard for the legitimate authentication companies due to a small % of mistakes.

It makes no sense. 

Mr.Zipper and Roger Epperson know how hard these companies work to get it right but they realize mistakes will be made because it is not a science.

However, every mistake that is uncovered from PSA/DNA or JSA is quickly pointed out on this forum.

There are currently 161,000 items that pull up on an Ebay search for PSA/DNA. Does anyone really think they can find 16,000 items that are not authentic which would still be a 90% accuracy rate. I seriously doubt it.

Of course they are in business to make money but they also serve as a valuable resource in this hobby.

The difference is that on this forum we can use fake names, nicknames, first names, etc., and post anything we feel like with no consequences. If we are wrong, no big deal.

These companies are actually held accountable for their mistakes and get little credit for their primarily correct assessments.

I own no Collector's Universe stock and JSA is privately owned so my opinion is just based on what I have seen at major shows where they authenticate. I have disagreed with both of them on occasion but I personally think they do their best to get it right whether the customer for them is "Big" or "Small" and I have seen them reject items from some of their biggest customers.

To think they rubber stamp for money for favored customers is a rediculous statement.

To think they make some mistakes is correct.

That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on November 7, 2013 at 7:16pm

I use my name, I have nothing to hide or fear. My middle name is Arthur. I am 54. Started collecting autographs in the late seventies , got swept up in the baseball card shows and autograph shows then branched out to book signings and in person collecting which I soured on. I do believe there is some favoritism with "good customers" at PSA though. I don't always post when they are mentioned. I am only a collector with my own opinion.

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Permalink Reply by Randy on November 8, 2013 at 5:39am

I agree with both of you that the largest customers get preferential treatment in any business.

In business, they normally get the best pricing and best turn around time for their orders due to volume. However, they still get the same product as other customers.

I know that PSA/DNA and JSA have different pricing structures and turn around times for their largest customers and that makes sense from a business standpoint. 

I don't believe that they intentionally pass a bad autograph just because the customer does a lot of business with them.

It is certainly possible on lesser valued items that the top authenticators don't review every item and some items get through but that could happen for large or small customers.

Again, my opinion is that these companies have helped clean up the hobby but I certainly recognize that they make mistakes. They occasionally authenticate forgeries and fail authentic examples.

It is called human error and takes place in any business.

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on November 8, 2013 at 2:50pm

I bet if there was time to dig through 161,000 authenticated pieces that finding 16,000 that are bad would be pretty easy.

PSA makes their money on folks blindly believing they are authenticating at a 90% clip. I think 80% maybe on sports items but closer to 50-60% on entertainment/music.

Just my opinion from items I know and search. 

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