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Permalink Reply by Mike Kaminski on June 16, 2014 at 7:00pm

Yeah it's really strange, even if they only do mention HOFers, they usually say "Other notable signatures include" or something like that.

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Permalink Reply by Dane on June 17, 2014 at 12:53am

Yeah, that's what I meant, Mike. Whenever I've seen a team signed item, Maris is always mentioned on the LOA either as a notable or clubhouse. This LOA did neither. If I were the owner, I would have complained to PSA, and I'm sure Joe would have gotten it fixed, as he has fixed other issues I had with PSA, in the past.

As for how it would imply a forgery, Anthony: If the LOA doesn't mention Maris, and he's the premiere signature on the ball, the implication is that it wasn't signed by Maris. Since he died well before PSA started authenticating, it would have been impossible for him to sign the ball later.

So, either the Maris is forged or somehow PSA (and the person who had it authenticated) missed that Maris signed the ball. Those are the only two explanations I can think of.

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on June 16, 2014 at 8:17pm

Wow ! How does that imply its a forgey ?
Is it a forgery ?

The person getting the item authenticated really has no say on what psa writes in the loa . Why dont you write psa and ask if they cert'd the item .

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Permalink Reply by Dane on July 3, 2014 at 4:20pm

I got a response from PSA today, and they said that if Maris was on the ball when authenticated, he would have been the premiere signature. As such, he would have been listed as either authentic or clubhouse.

So, this goes back to the original concern:

It's either a forgery (added after Maris' death) or PSA and the submitter missed Maris' signature at the time of submission.

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Permalink Reply by Dane on July 3, 2014 at 9:19pm

That makes sense, but PSA's representative said it wasn't a Maris authenticated ball. I even sent them the link to the original ball. Here is the exact quote from the email sent to me:

"PSA/DNA would list the primary signers and HOFers on the LOA/LOO. In the case below, Roger Maris would have been listed on the LOA, even if the result was Clubhouse."

This was in reference to:

"Also, if I've compiled a list of all the players represented on the ball (22 signatures), would the LOA name all of them as either authentic or clubhouse? The reason I ask is related to another A's signed ball that was authenticated by PSA (http://www.ebay.com/itm/321411296210). According to the seller, the ball was signed by Maris, but the LOA has no mention of Maris. I would assume, as the key signature on the ball, that Maris would be either mentioned as authentic or as a clubhouse."

I understand it being possibly an oversight, but that fails the logic test for me. If I submitted a team ball to PSA with Maris (or Mantle or DiMaggio or Williams), only to have it returned as authentic with no mention of the key signature, I'd immediately email Joe and find out why. If it were an oversight, I'm confident Joe would have done what he's done in the past, directing the ball be sent to his attention, so it could be reviewed again. I really don't see a scenario under which the owner of the ball would simply ignore the lack of Maris being mentioned in the LOA, if the Maris were, indeed, authentic.

Something else that makes me curious is the LOA mentions 28 signatures, but when you actually count them, there are 29. It seems far more likely that the Maris was added than the authenticator both missed the Maris and miscounted.

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Permalink Reply by David S on July 10, 2014 at 10:00pm

I don't know enough about Maris signatures to judge its authenticity, but my guess is that it was deemed a clubhouse, and it was inadvertently left off that list. This would be a reason the owner of the ball would "ignore" the Maris being left off the LOA.... If it was authentic, there would also be an accompanying photo on the LOA.

From the photos I don't see how it could have been added later, as the ink seems pretty uniform. It also would be odd to have an open space there, though there is also a space above Ralph Terry if u look at all panels in the ebay listing. Still I highly doubt it was added later.

It's also possible the ball was looked at, at a booth at a memorabilia show (they don't issue the LOAs then) and then whoever was typing it up back at the office missed something...

Did u email the seller?

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Permalink Reply by N.Daniel on June 17, 2014 at 4:23am

Jsa takes like 5-10 minutes on certain pieces, with psa they look to see who sent it in, and if its not somebody who sends them hundreds of autos they give it like a 30 second look. Its a good Maris (His signature or original 50's secretarial) just needs to be mentioned, the ink is uniform and its NOT on the end where it could be added later

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