Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 29, 2012 at 9:19am

Good job, Paul! I changed the title to make it more search engine friendly, but everything else is the same.

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Permalink Reply by Dylan McCabe on August 30, 2012 at 2:11am

Hi Paul, I am one of the victims of all companies listed, i am also in other discussions on this site regarding these fraudsters. Thanks for starting this discussion and there is alot of people on here with the same issues.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathon M on August 30, 2012 at 11:27pm

Me too, I got about 10 pieces of junk from these clowns. I will also swear on anything you want that I contacted grays about 12 months ago and they DID NOTHING!!!!! even though when the rep was on the phone with me I got him to check the thread I started around that time and he agreed they looked sus. I also live near their shop it's disgusting... a whole shop of blatant fakes... If you want any of my JUNK to submit you can have it, a refund would be nice but it's more about f****** these clowns up and seeing them punished financially or worse.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 7:10am

Thanks for the response Jonathon, keep checking this page as we build a healthy list of people.

I shall post all correspondence and replies as we go, and any input or advise will be appreciated.

If we can build the log of dissatisfied customers it will continue to strengthen the case and mitigate the costs.

Their strategy is simple, make it too expensive to challenge for an individual, and force to customer to have every piece attested and authenticated before refunding the price of the item, minus postage and handling and buyers fee.. they cant lose against an individual, but against a healthy group, this strategy will be less effective.

A healthy group is also needed to attract the attention of media outlets and for the authorities to take it seriously enough for a prosecution that the customer is not forced to pay for, but that prosecution would hopefully involve criminal charges.

I am the same as you, the money would be nice, but the stopping of this continued fraud is the main aim... and F****** these clowns up and seeing them punished financially or worse would be sweet too.

They have not addressed the fact that this is not about a few faked autographs, this is about all faked autographs.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 7:15am

Dear Paul,

Thank you for your email.

So that I can look into this matter for you can you please forward me any evidence that you have that the signatures are not authentic and confirm the invoice numbers for the lots that you are disputing?

I look forward to hearing back from you soon.

If you have any further enquiries, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Regards

Cathy
Grays Customer Service

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 7:15am

Cathy
Please refer to this site and post.
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/your-help-needed-ple...
Also this site and posts.
http://acaf-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&p=69#p69

I think that is unfair for your organization to ignore these claims and continue to stand my some dodgy certificates without investigating the strong claims against your "vendors"
It is a federal offense to send fraudulent items through the Australian postal service, as well as an offense to sell fraudulent items.

I believe that you have not shown due diligence in authenticating items that are clearly fake... one particular photograph that I purchased was still sticky from being recently processed, yet the person who supposedly signed it died in 2008!
If forensic analysis is required, then that evidence will be taken to the authorities, and not presented to your organisation as I believe you are being deliberately evasive. I will begin the process of writing to all of the artists that are being forged, gathering expert testimony and organising forensic testing of your items that I have purchased, some still in the plastic wrap that they came in and are perfect for fingerprint analysis, the age of the photographs will also be easily detected.
should these prove to be fake items, which seems to be certain, then the costs of these tests will form part of a claim, and if need be, a class action from all victims that I can contact.

David Gilmour has not signed autographs, other than for charity, for several years, yet you seem to have a never ending supply of his "not even close" autographs, and all selling for way under market value of authentic Gilmour autographs... smell a rat yet?

You have been contacted by several members of Autograph Magazine, and Steve Cyrkin, The editor of the site, has given me permission to pass on his contact details to you so you can discuss these claims with an industry expert, and others.
you need to show due diligence to these claims and investigate thoroughly, as these warnings will be part of a case to stop this blatant fraud that is being committed on and industrial scale.
Graysonline reputation is firmy at stake here, and you need to act accordingly. Australian and international investigative journalists will be contacted in mass, and the costs of bringing this fraud to an end will be mittigated by the force of the industries that I will bring together. You can contact Steve Cyrkin on this email address, here is Steve's reply to my post.

You can send Cathy to this and the other discussion on the Commissos, and she can contact me directly at editor@autographmagazine.com.

ACAF has also been contacted and I await their reply, but they have this industrial scale fraud firmly in their sights as well... this is very serious business, and you need to respond accordingly.

Paul Baker.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 7:16am

Hi Paul,

Thank you for your email.

I have reviewed all the details you have supplied in your recent emails and unfortunately, there is not sufficient proof for us to assist you with this matter.

We have supplied the certificates of authenticity to support our claim that the items are authentic and you have not been able to supply proof that would adequately show that the items are not authentic. By way of proof we would accept for review an attested statement or report. Once we have this proof we can look further in to this matter but without it we need to go with the vendor as they have supplied the certificate of authenticity.

We provided the certificate of authenticity on the lot description that was visible before you placed your bid so that you could have done your research and been satisfied with the authenticity before placing bids on the items.

At this point we cannot offer you a refund on any of the items that you have purchased but if you can supply the proof requested above we can review this matter.

If you have any further enquiries, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

Regards

Cathy
Grays Customer Service

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 7:32am

From here I would say we wait to build this group of victims and other parties. I will write a descriptive form letter to send to all of the artists being forged, this will hopefully serve two purposes, one to prove the fraud and two to raise the profile.

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Permalink Reply by Jonathon M on August 31, 2012 at 5:49pm

This says it all... Spend hundred authenticating (or proving it's a fake) to get $30 per item back (or whatever you bought it for) would cost that just in postage to the authenticator. F**k Grays... I hope they burn... Like I said, you can have all my pieces if and when you decide they are of some use.... Can I keep the frames though? ;-)

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on September 2, 2012 at 7:01am

Hey Dylan / Jonathon

I have looked into some options we may have, and one worth pursuing is to put in a claim with your credit card provider, they will probably accept the PSA and Global opinions and are then able to retrieve the funds on your behalf as we are insured against fraud. I will put in a claim with my Westpac Mastercard and see what they say.

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Permalink Reply by Dylan McCabe on September 1, 2012 at 11:28pm

Great work PAUL, I got the same reply from grays about insufficient proof even though i forwarded them the email that psa and global sent me saying it is 'likely not genuine' and they still knocked it back. So it as simple as grays just wanting to make a buck even if it is breaking the law. As bad as it sounds, is there any really talented hackers we can get a hold of so they can infiltrate there system and shut it down for a while just to teach them a lesson an make them lose some of that dirty money. yes i know hacking is illegal but desperate times call for desperate measures.

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Permalink Reply by Dylan McCabe on September 1, 2012 at 11:35pm

As i have some spare funds, i am willing to pay for a real forensic examination on an item that we as a group determine to be the best example of forgeries. If someone could give me the details of a respected autograph examiner in Australia preferably then we can agree on which item we have tested from anyone in these discussions and i will pay for it as long as the fees are not crazy. I am willing to use my money to help this case become more solid. The best piece for examination would be a celeb that has a licensed company that has the rights to the celebs autograph that way when the expert says its fake the company may take action an join us in the fight against forgeries.

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