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Mantle Difficulty

I've been a collector nearly 30 years. As a Police Officer, I incorporated my hobby in to my work, and studied Forensic Handwriting Analysis. I came across this Mantle, and it caught my eye. I noticed several key similarities, and only a few irregularities at glance. Upon comparison, and under magnification, I see no irregularities in the flow. I find no irregular impression points. Nor, do I see any dragging in the flow of the pen. I've had several Mantle collectors say it is a fake.

Needing more insight, I hired Richard Simon to offer his opinion. As well respected as Richard is on Yankee items, I trust his opinion. He deemed it good. A friend who works at the FBI Crime Lab with Forensic Handwriting, also viewed the signature, and agreed it is good.

That said, there should be little question as to the findings. Thoughts?

I will post photos of the ball, and my comparison exemplars from various years.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 5:23pm

Thanks for your input Chris! It seems to be an interesting one for sure. I've received mixed opinions on it.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 24, 2017 at 5:25pm

Wow...NOW this is getting really interesting.

Matt, Chris is very sharp on Mantles. This is a surprise, but if Chris doesn't like it, the fat lady hasn't sung yet.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 5:28pm

This is what makes it fun! Who doesn't enjoy a good challenge?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 24, 2017 at 5:41pm

One being the shape of the “N”?

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 5:43pm

I can provide several examples of that N in earlier signatures.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 5:46pm

Another....notice the N and the lower loop to the T.

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20171224_194548.jpg, 2.8 MB

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 24, 2017 at 5:50pm

Matt,

I meant to ask you, what books do you rely upon for exemplars. Autograph Collector Magazine (our prior name) published an authentication guide book in around 2000 that we later found had a number of inaccuracies.

Authentication knowledge gets better over time, so older books are often not reliable.

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 5:54pm

For paperback, I use 'Baseball Hall of Fame Autographs' by Ron Keurajian, and Autograph Reference Study of Hall of Fame Signatures 1st Edition 2011' by Robert Poll.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 24, 2017 at 6:20pm

Ron is the best HOF researcher in baseball autographs. He's very much anti-TPAs, though, mostly PSA/DNA and JSA, which is sometimes deserved/sometimes not.

Ron's also exceptionally good at vintage golf.

Are you familiar with PSA Autograph Facts, their online authentic autograph examples? They're not perfect, but they're probably the most reliable database of autographs out there. In baseball, there's probably no one more reliable.

This is the main link:
https://www.psacard.com/autographfacts#4baseball

This is direct to Mantle:
https://www.psacard.com/autographfacts/baseball/mickey-mantle/29

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Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 24, 2017 at 6:24pm

I am aware of PSA and James Spence. I have also seen them fail known, in person signatures. I am a regular reader of the Hauls of Shame and have read the blatant mishaps of both companies. It was for that reason, I submitted this ball for review by Richard Simon.

At the last St. Louis show, I saw the JSA table, manned by a few young kids. Not very trusting for me.