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Mantle Difficulty

I've been a collector nearly 30 years. As a Police Officer, I incorporated my hobby in to my work, and studied Forensic Handwriting Analysis. I came across this Mantle, and it caught my eye. I noticed several key similarities, and only a few irregularities at glance. Upon comparison, and under magnification, I see no irregularities in the flow. I find no irregular impression points. Nor, do I see any dragging in the flow of the pen. I've had several Mantle collectors say it is a fake.

Needing more insight, I hired Richard Simon to offer his opinion. As well respected as Richard is on Yankee items, I trust his opinion. He deemed it good. A friend who works at the FBI Crime Lab with Forensic Handwriting, also viewed the signature, and agreed it is good.

That said, there should be little question as to the findings. Thoughts?

I will post photos of the ball, and my comparison exemplars from various years.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 25, 2017 at 6:24am

When you study Mantle signatures on a regular basis, as Steve said, you get an immediate reaction to the overall signature.  I had the same reaction as Steve did when I first saw the signature. But I also respect the opinions of Richard, Christopher and Steve so I did not comment on the authenticity.  Reading the very well presented arguments for and against, I will add what concerns me about the signature:

1) Space between the M and i in Mick.

2) the transition from the c to the k is very atypical

3) the second M is oblong and has an unusual overall shape

Matt has done a nice job comparing various examples of the last name, but while I am nowhere near the level of Richard, Christopher and Steve Z on Mantles, I have learned to use "Mickey" as my focus on authenticity.  If the Mickey is off, that usually signals "forgery".

Lastly, having it on a Budig ball, if authentic, makes it very rare and special.  But when authenticity is questioned, as it is here, having it on a Budig ball just adds to the concern.

Merry Christmas to all!

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 25, 2017 at 6:29am

Thank you for your input! This has been fun regardless. While I have concerns, I can see valid points on both sides. I have yet to find any other forged example that compares to this, or by the same hand.

Again, Richard called it good after my initial examination, and a friend at the FBI Crime Lab agreed itf was good upon initial observation.

In the end, all we have, is our opinions, nothing more as none of us were there when this ball was signed by whomever.

Regardless, this allowed us to think, offer arguments for and against, and use rationale. I've enjoyed this thread and interaction very much. Thank you all and Merry Christmas to those who celebrate the holiday!

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on December 24, 2017 at 6:17pm

The K-E is a bit weird.

Permalink Reply by Danny Francis on December 24, 2017 at 7:03pm

I love this site. 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 25, 2017 at 6:08am

This is not authentic.

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 25, 2017 at 6:10am

Everyone have an enjoyable Christmas day and pray for those that are less fortunate.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 25, 2017 at 6:29am

Matt,

These members know Mantle very well and far better than I do. If they are sure it’s bad, I have no doubt that it is. 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 25, 2017 at 6:37am

It looks to me that whoever penned it, either unintentionally, or intentionally,  incorporated various-circa Mantle autographs.

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 25, 2017 at 6:40am

It is unique. I've never seen another example like it. I've spent hours thumbing through authentic and forged exemplars. 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 25, 2017 at 6:48am

Below is the OP's "Mantle" and an authentic Mantle on a Budig baseball.

Click your mouse on the below image to get a closer view.

Permalink Reply by Matt Cordoves on December 25, 2017 at 6:51am

I've viewed several signature exemplars on Budig balls and this signature, does not match. However, the signature itself has several traits from authentic exemplars. 

Permalink Reply by CJCollector on December 25, 2017 at 6:56am

Matt, if you're referring to the Mantle you initially posted, I don't see one characteristic of an authentic Mantle autograph in it.  Not one.

I have yet to figure out what part forensics plays in opining this "Mantle."

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