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What exactly is this eBay seller doing? Is this considered counterfeiting?

I suggest you review the items for sale by an eBay seller named: presidentialcollectibles

It appears that this seller is using a new 2012 autopen machine and is counterfeiting, ( if that is the correct term?), celebrity autographs. The seller's description states that, "These signatures cannot be found anywhere else", so it is unclear if anyone else is also currently using this autopen device. Thus far, one can purchase a Neil Armstrong, John Lennon, Marilyn Monroe, Bruce Lee, Babe Ruth, or Elvis Presley autopenned ink signature, and according to the seller "provides high quality signature which is an exact replica of the original".

For obvious reasons, I find this 'new autopen machine' quite troubling. Aside from the potential influx of confounding new autotypes, does creating these autotypes represent an issue in intellectual property law? I am not a lawyer, but..................

Should the profits of sales of the 'new autopenned' signatures belong to the estate of the signators?

Examples:

Tags: al capone, autopen, babe ruth, counterfeit, elvis presley, forgeries, machine-signed, marilyn monroe, mike tyson, neil armstrong, More…obama

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Comment by Scott Paul on September 18, 2012 at 6:47am: Why anyone would pay anything for a "replica" autograph of Al Capone is beyond me. This trend of creating collectibles is troublesome but I doubt there is anything that can be done to stop it. There is no doubt that these framed gems will ultimately find a home in local antique shops and flea markets awaiting unsuspecting buyers. Sadly like the common cold it will never be eradicated we just hope we don't get it.

Comment by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on September 18, 2012 at 6:57am: Terrier,

We will put up a site for real and fake examples if we can find members willing to handle each area. We talked about putting up a wiki a long time ago but it's not an efficient way to do this. They need to be in photo galleries served by a searchable database.

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 18, 2012 at 12:42pm: I just took another look at pres. coll. ads on ebay.

For movies posters, this is what his ad says in the title:

Avengers Movie Poster autographed by cast members/actors

Huh???

In the body of the ad he does explain that the autopen is used but does anyone else here besides me think that the title is extremely deceptive. Reading the title what would anyone think initially?

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 18, 2012 at 12:58pm: I just took a look at the Avengers movie poster that you are referring to below Richard and you are absolutely correct. The title is deceptive and eBay should not allow such practices.

Comment by Dr. Richard Saffro on September 18, 2012 at 12:59pm: It is IMPERATIVE that the seller's eBay header state that the item is an autopen. Hopefully, eBay will establish a second category for autographs, entitled, 'Autographs, copied, reproduced or autopenned'. This will make the situation a tad more palatable.

Comment by DB on September 18, 2012 at 2:11pm: I have not always seen RP or otherwise in a number of other sellers who also sell reprints on ebay in the title. some do, many don't. haven't found a policy perse except in the description it would appear the "authenticity" must be cited one way or the other.

The avenger I read had; The new state of the art signature machine manufactured in 2012 which was used for the signatures in this poster, provides high quality signature which is an exact replica of the original. This implies to me this is NOT an original but a replica.

Comment by Richard S. Simon on September 18, 2012 at 2:30pm: In summary this is what we have found out about pres.coll./sports_buff - -

1- Deceptive advertising

2- Two accounts, with no real explanation why that was necessary

3- Attempting to sell products without proper licensing.

4- Creating items that any intelligent person would know would be used illegally by other people.

5- Never answering the tough questions that I posed.

The one thing,perhaps, that we can be grateful for is that the public reacted with benign neglect to most of his auctions. He sold about 20% of his listings and most of his sales were movie posters.

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 18, 2012 at 2:31pm: That was written in the description DB. The title said nothing about the item being a product of autopen signatures. One can only speculate why a seller would leave such an important piece of information out of a title. The title should mention that the signatures are not original and I can't believe that eBay would disagree with instituting such a policy.

Comment by DB on September 18, 2012 at 2:50pm: Mike - that is where you find most sellers verbiage on rps. I track many listings quite often and I can say with good probability that the greater majority of sellers do not have anything in the title but choose to describe it in the title. EBAY policy on replicas is here; http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html

I can say with confidence however that many sellers who sell RPs will claim that it is from an original. You can reveiw my Heston Post it Here thread for several examples.

@Richard - that statement would apply to the greater majority of ebay sellers who sell RPs w/o any identification. I also don't agree with point #1 as he is well within the rules of engagement on EBAY at the moment.

Comment by Mike Shepherd on September 18, 2012 at 3:14pm: Now I'm confused DB. Wouldn't autopen signatures qualify as "fake autographs" and shouldn't that put an end to this seller's business on eBay? Is there a loophole that I am missing here?

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