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Has Autograph collecting become less of a hobby and more of a business.

The internet has made it easy to trade. With the birth of the ebay flipper, where is our hobby heading? Is the hobby more of a business for flippers who are inflating our loved autographs. Its not uncommon to see items sold at auctions and resold a week later for double the amount. There also seems to be more and more flippers around.

Whats doing more damage to the prices the flippers or the forgers?

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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on March 23, 2015 at 4:59am

For well over a century this hobby has been a business. There have been people willing to sell autographs for as long as there have been autograph collectors. Without the autograph-hounds, how would Mrs. Smith in Iowa have an autograph collection of her favorite celebrities? The guys out there getting the autographs for later sale are not the problem. People getting good deals and buying up real autograph collections for future sales are also not the problem.

Sellers try to get what the market will bear. That is called "The American Way."

People who are clueless and buying forged autographs and trying to pass them on at a profit ....that is the problem. For every real autograph on ebay there are easily ten forgeries available at 1/10th the price. Joe Idiot from Witchita buys Scarlett Johanssons and Harrison Fords and whoever else at $20 a pop, and has them back up on ebay at $150-$300 within a week. Then the next buyer thinks "hey that is real, look at the price."

Long time autograph collectors and dealers are not the problem, people seeing a quick buck and the forgers that supply them with material .....that is the problem.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on March 23, 2015 at 5:09am

Wonderfully said!

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Permalink Reply by James on March 23, 2015 at 8:19am

Hey, how 'bout we say Joey Idiot from Queens? Let's leave the good people from Wichita alone. They're headed to the SWEET SIXTEEN, baby. GO SHOCKERS! I say that even though I'm a Jayhawks fan. ;0)

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on March 23, 2015 at 5:24am

the buyers set the price, not the sellers. its a complicated web. the cost of authentication has driven up the prices, as have companies like Steiner, Tri-STar. also the players are demanding ridiculous prices for an autograph. and even an inscription. take a look at Koufax's upcoming signing pricing for inscriptions. its nuts.

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Permalink Reply by James on March 23, 2015 at 8:36am

It is true, in reality, that the buyers set the prices. Ultimately, if you don't like the price, no one is forcing you to pay it. Many of us complain about the amount of money that star athletes make compared to the average hard-working Joe (myself included, sometimes), but nobody is forcing us to buy tickets to the games. Like they say, we vote with our dollars (and pounds).

But then again, since celebrities can thank us (and their talent) for their fat paychecks, it might be nice if they would give us a discount for inking our items.

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Permalink Reply by Null on March 23, 2015 at 7:28am

The low cost of forgeries undoubtedly causes more damage to the hobby than "flippers" IMHO. Especially when they come from an "eBay approved 3rd party" (GA).

So you've got 10 Yasiel Puig forgeries "authenticated" by GA selling for $50-$100, then you've got authentic ones from Panini/Fanatics with starting bids of $199... no one is even THINKING about bidding... (This has literally been happening on eBay for over a year).

Now if you decide to sell your Yasiel Puig in-person signature, which price do you think you'll get? You're going to get the $50-$100 range because of the MASSIVE amount of forgeries selling in that price range. People assume that is the "norm". If these forgeries never existed, then the "norm" would be what Panini/Fanatics is offering at $200+....

So not only are these scammers screwing customers, they are screwing the value of my authentic Yasiel Puig signatures as well.

If someone finds a nice deal and buys an authentic Puig signature for $75, then "flips" it for $150, that is actually helping you by showing the legitimate value of it.

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Permalink Reply by James on March 23, 2015 at 8:52am

I do see your point, Paul, about flippers. I recently saw that a JFK-signed copy of "Profiles in Courage" sold for about $2700 at RR Auctions, which was pretty cheap. Less than ten days later, that same book was up for sale on eBay for $5200! It's now being offered for $4450. I've noticed this happening quite a bit, with people winning an RR item, and then going for the flip on eBay.

I think there are a lot of flippers on eBay. People just need to be patient and shop around until they find the best price. But I have actually wondered how many "real" collectors there are out there vs. people who just want to turn an autograph for a quick buck. Personally, collecting really is my thing. Occasionally, I sell, but it's usually just to raise funds for something I want even more to add to my collection.

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Permalink Reply by Paul on March 23, 2015 at 11:28am

There has been a signed Bob Dylan poster also signed by Hendrix on ebay for a long time. The price used to be around 2000 but now psa dna have given it a sticker its on for 8 thousand.

I don't like seeing flippers get their hands on ltd runs of vinyl sometimes the band or artist sign the albums for record store day. The flippers go to the store buy the albums and place a huge mark up on the item. The problem is the albums are suppose to be for the fans not the flippers. Its like ticket scalping. One flipper was paying people to line up at a store so he could get more albums to flog, then the kids who are the fanzines miss out because they cant afford the mark up on ebay.

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Permalink Reply by Pete Bendu on March 23, 2015 at 11:35am

In that case I feel for the fan who was at the end of the line and couldn't get one. The fan who sat at home and didn't go to the store, should pay the premium and pick up some cheese to go with his whine.

and yes that was a joke!

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Permalink Reply by Paul on March 23, 2015 at 11:50am

I don't have a problem with people who pay taxes and who are in business Pete.
But what I see there's more people getting into the field on ebay looking to turn over buying from auction houses. Which could mean prices will eventually come down because they will be competing with one another.

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Permalink Reply by David S on March 23, 2015 at 3:57pm

I disagree. Why would prices go down? The more flippers, the more bidders..the more bidders the higher the bidding goes. I've been buying from auction houses for many years now, and I can tell you it's MUCH harder to find a bargain now than it was even 10 years ago. Everyone has a smart phone, ebay, worthpoint, and knowing value of certain items is easy. Without that at your fingertips, like it was years ago, you actually had to know the value of things from experience.

I'm still trying to understand what the problem is with someone buying something at an auction, and then re-selling on ebay for a profit? This means that what it went for at Auction was not fair market value....what it sold on ebay was!

Let's say I own a signed Babe Ruth baseball, which I bought for $9000. Then a very similar one sells at auction for $6000. That same person then "flips" it on ebay for $11,000. That would make me happy.

Flipping (from auction houses) can only increase the value of your autographed items.

Forgeries can drive them down.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on March 23, 2015 at 4:08pm

I totally agree. Someone who flips an autograph or anything else for that matter must first know what an item is selling for on the market. They are not creating a new higher value but rather using their knowledge of the marketplace and keeping an established value in place. Without knowing what an item sells for they will be out of business fast.