Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 9, 2015 at 3:40pm

What gets me is that all Johnson had to do to get a refund was send the $9,600 in autographs that PSA/DNA rejected back to RR. They even agreed to pay the authentication fees and related costs. He wouldn't send them back. 

Have you ever heard of any other R&R customer complain that the failed to honor their guarantee? There's supposedly one person who didn't accept a refund of his purchase price from them on a Beatles set because the value of Beatles autographs had gone up a lot since he bought it, but that's it. 

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Permalink Reply by Sidney Fields on June 9, 2015 at 3:59pm

Based on the R&R offer, it doesn't seem that Mr. Johnson has substantial damages.  Maybe none at all. He can't just create his own. And given the standard course of business in the field, it appears he may not have much of a case. 

But we live in a country where anyone can sue for almost any reason.  If you can afford a lawyer you don't need much of a case.  

 

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Permalink Reply by Gratefulphish on June 9, 2015 at 10:38pm

If that is really the case factually, then Johnson doesn't have a legal leg to stand on.  He can't seriously be arguing that he is both entitled to a full refund, plus other costs, and then gets to keep the items.  That's just silly.  That would make him look just as bad as Bob Eaton, and that's bad.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on June 10, 2015 at 5:30pm

Yeah, common sense dictates that seeking a refund means you are expected to return the merchandise. I don't think any judge will disagree with that.

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Permalink Reply by Joe W. on June 9, 2015 at 4:41pm

Too bad this Johnson had some valid points which have gotten lost in the personal vendetta. Two questions come to mind. How did so many autographs fail to pass authentication? What about the schill bidding possibility? Both of those should raise red flags to their present customers and demand a closer look. I hope the charges are all false. There can only be so much flame throwing until it brings everyone down. This hobby needs some good news right about now.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 9, 2015 at 4:52pm

It would be valuable to see images of the autographs that PSA/DNA failed to see what members here that know those names well think. 

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Permalink Reply by Dane on June 10, 2015 at 3:47pm

These are the images Johnson posted on his site, minus the Layla piece which doesn't show an image of the item:

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on June 10, 2015 at 6:34pm

Thanks, Dane. They're too small to authenticate from unfortunately. 

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Permalink Reply by Tony Demontague on June 10, 2015 at 3:41am

No-one can legitimately deny the clients right to sue when wrong was done. Doesn't mean the approach is "sensible", but its legitimate. Fact: he paid for real and got fakes. The counter suit for defamation has a simple motive - revenge, and an attempt to recover reputation.... it will fail for one simple reason.... nothing was as damaging as the ridiculous depositions given... the words directly from the mouths of RR Auctions were so lacking in genuineness...  for a business based on trust and reputation they acted like people seeking to avoid "something"....  My trust in them is permanently damaged....  so thanks to Mr Johnson to opening the eyes of many.  I love your American right to free speech.... except when someone disagrees with you? The Brits are more stoic..

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Permalink Reply by James Stone on June 10, 2015 at 4:07am

Its not a fact that they were fake. In any event, he was offered his money back! I'd sue him too if he filed groundless charged against me.

I do agree that the depositions were evasive, but I find that RR does a great job at weeding out forgeries. Much better than most auction houses. So I am not sure what people think they are hiding. If they were running a forgery factory, they'd be out of business pretty quick.

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Permalink Reply by Mike T on June 10, 2015 at 5:50pm

The whole situation is embarrassing for them in a few different ways. First they sold a number of items that were deemed forgeries by PSA. That makes you wonder how many items they sold that would fail PSA that were never submitted. I'm willing to bet the majority of people that buy from them don't send it to PSA after. Also, I wonder if Johnson had paid the additional $75 for the PSA letter immediately upon completion of the auction if they still would have failed? I think not, and that also raises a few eyebrows.

Second is that Eatons signature is on both the RR COA and the PSA rejection letter for the same items. Talk about looking like an unorganized mess.

Lastly since this story came out, RR has eliminated the lifetime guarantee that they touted as being the best in the business for so many years. Why now would they do that when they are under all this scrutiny? Doesn't make a lot of sense.

The case is interesting, and I would recommend looking past the ego plays and just at the facts presented.

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Permalink Reply by Gratefulphish on June 10, 2015 at 6:26pm

Those are all valid points.  The attorney for Johnson took Bob Eaton to task, for both being a signatory on the COA from RR, as well as being on the PSA letters failing the items.  I did not know that all of the items also purportedly had a COA from Roger Epperson.  I know that Johnson has a separate beef with Roger over the Zeppelin album that he bought from him, but this, if true, would give Johnson additional ammo.

And, no, it doesn't look good at all that RR is now curtailing their previous lifetime guarantee. I suppose the message is, if you are going to buy anything in their auctions, get it looked over promptly, so that you don't get stuck with it.  IMO, this lawsuit will have a tremendous negative impact on RR, no matter what the end result is.

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