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Going to be very interesting for sure....if this is all even true. Not sure why but for some reason I either think you have these things and are trying to figure out the legality of trying to sell them or this is all just a made up story. I dont believe for a second that a guy walked past a trash can and just so happened to find the medical records for Michael Jackson's Pepsi commercial accident with polaroids. And low and behold there is a case study that says if you find it in the trash it's OK. No it isn't. You'd have to show Michael Jackson himself threw them away. Just hard to believe that these documents were just magically released in original form from Cedar Sinai Hospital. I'd have to see them to believe it.
I just think a lawyer if hired by the Jacksons would eat this up. I get documents for people all the time. I have yet to ever had the hospital or Dr's office return me the original release form. They keep the original release form to show that the release of documents was authorized. Would be a major HIPPA violation not to keep it. The hospital could easily be sued as well as those who executed the release and didn't safeguard the documents. Since the original release form is with the documents it wouldn't be hard to make the assumption that they were obtained illegally and were in the possession of an unauthorized person while Micheal Jackson was still alive.
Who brought the items to your attention J. Lee? Was it the auction house or the consignor?
JLee, I just find it very hard to believe that somebody has these. Without knowing the legality of the documents and will not post photo's of them but will show them and tell you and BTW allow you to research information on them over the internet on a site that would surely attract attention. No accusation. I just don't believe a word of it. If these go up for sale and sale is legal I will post an apology. Just convinced that there will never be a need.
Second the case law you posted would have absolutely nothing to do with this instance. It is regarding physical evidence of narcotics use that was placed into the trash and taken to the street. Police siezed the trash to obtain evidence to request a search warrant. Precedent had to do with expected privacy one would expect if they personally threw away their own trash and then moved the trash to a public area. It would not cover finding documents in the trash that MJ himself did not place there.
Lastly, I called the records section of the hospital where MJ was treated. Spoke with Samantha. Surprised they were open over the weekend but sure enough. She states that all original documents are the property of the hospital per a law of California that she did not have handy. She states under no circumstances would original documents be released to anybody, not the patient, a lawyer...etc. A medical release form would be required and the original release maintained by the hospital. The release form would only entitle a person to a photocopy of their medical records. The hospital under court subpeona would still only release copies of documents but would have these documents notarized by the chief of medical records. Without going into names I asked her how one would come into possession of these original documents and without using the terms I have she stated that is would not have been done legally.
Mike -
The documents were brought to my attention by the auction house who is currently in possession of them and doing their due diligence at this time.
Rick,
The Supreme Court decision does cover more the 'privacy' aspect of trash. "The Supreme Court did weigh in on the status of trash in 1988 but from a privacy rather than property standpoint. In that case, the court ruled that the police can search trash bags without a warrant because it's "common knowledge" that garbage is "readily accessible to animals, children, scavengers, snoops, and other members of the public." And, therefore, there's no "reasonable expectation of privacy" when it comes to discarded items."
It seems that there have also been a lot of cases involving the ownership aspect of trash. From what I have found it the found items from the 'trash' almost exclusively belong to the finder. "In one Indiana case from 1999, a labor organizer removed several bags of trash from a bin on the premises of a contracting company and searched them for employee contact information (for his unionization efforts). The company alleged that its property had been stolen, but the appellate court ruled that the organizer wasn't liable since the material had been abandoned."
In regards to these specific documents, it sounds like MJ signed off on the release of the documents to his litigation attorney's (I would think that would then transfer the ownership to his attorney's?)
I am assuming that "Samantha" was speaking generally and she is probably not familiar with this specific paperwork. Not saying she is wrong, but I am not surprised by her answers. It is well documented that Jackson's medical records were illegally accessed multiple times after he passed away but there is no report of anything physically missing. I would think that hospitals would have checked for missing physical documents when all of that started happening?
Certainly a lot of unanswered questions. I guess we will see how it plays out. Rick, you seem knowledgeable and I'm happy to have a discussion with you and answer any questions that you have... just not sure how you can flippantly make a claim that I am being dishonest? I do not own the documents and my knowledge comes from the auction house. Just trying to have an open conversation about it as I think this case is interesting and could potentially be a huge story.
I will be happy to give more specifics when I am released to do so. Right now, the knowledge that I have has been given to me in confidence by the auction house and I am not willing to break that trust.
I sent a copy of this thread to the Law Firm of Ziffren Brittenham LLP, Attn : Sr Partner John Branca.
Mr Branca is not only tasked as an executor of the will but with the managing and preservation of Micheal Jackson's estate.
Hopefully I get a reply to the questions I sent..... pro bono of course. The website alone looks expensive. LOL.
Rick,
This whole story continues to intrigue me. I am trying to do some research about other medical documents sold on the market. Apparently an original X-Ray of Marilyn Monroe was sold at auction for $45K (and the sale complete). I wonder why the Monroe estate didn't go after it? In that case the x-ray came from the collection of a physician. Thoughts?
Here is a link with a discussion on the Monroe X-Ray:
http://www.whattoexpect.com/forums/hot-topics-1/archives/public-sal...
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