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Authenticity is Everything
interesting conversation i had with a dealer recently.
alright. i had a really interesting conversation with an autograph dealer recently. and it took an odd turn.
he was trying to tell me to NOT sell off my authentic autographs because authentic autographs can not compete in the largely forged autograph market (which i agree with, a lot of the time.)
but then he told me to just scan off my autographs to a very large size and sell the reprints. because reprints are where the money is now.
really??? is this true.
i looked it up a little... ebay, yardseller etc. and i see A LOT of reprints.. tons. all over the board. and most of them are scans of fake stuff too. and they seem to be selling. at $5 and $10 a whack. i even see dealers with a statement that really bugs me... "no one knows the difference." basically calling out autograph collectors as a bunch of people who just want to show off their autographs (another statement that i believe for the most part!). one dealer even says things like "9 times out of 10, people pick the reprints as the real thing. because it's so good and looks so real."
really??
i've personally never done this. but i could print photos for 60 cents a piece and sell the reprints for $5-$10 ea... over time, that could be some serious money. AND NO, I AM NOT THINKING ABOUT DOING THIS, but it's a thought.
are people really buying this? if so, how much is really going on? and are there people who are buying these without really knowing what they are buying and then putting it back on the market as the real thing?
these are honest questions.
the next thing this dealer told me is that he's bought a machine that will engrave autographs onto metal (or any other plyable surface). i've actually seen this done in .a. pretty commonly now. a saw a guy who is a framer in l.a. show me the same thing saying that people don't want to pay for REAL autographs any longer, but they will pay for something cheap.
ok, this all sickens me... anyone else?
talk amongst your peers... let's see what people think on this one too???
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Peter Lougheed on
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When I buy autographs, I want the 100% real thing. When I find out an item I have is not authentic (including preprints), it goes on the BBQ or back to the seller, if I can track them down. The only reason someone would knowingly buy a preprint would be to lie and say it is authentic when they show it off or try to resell it. Nothing good can come from this.
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Permalink Reply by Rene on
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Same happens with me. But I guess someone would like to impress his friends with a collection of RPs! If that is the case, there is market for this stuff out there.
Funny thing is that many RPs seem to be RPs of forgeries, not RPs of the real thing.
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Permalink Reply by Rich on
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I think someone did bring this up on the forum maybe a couple of weeks ago. I personally think reprints are lame and lazy. I'd rather have an unsigned photo. Plus, it seems like most of the reprints I come across, at least on ebay, are of the most spectacularly laughable forgeries.
But I don't doubt that reprints (whether of forgeries or authentic autographs) are good business. The average novice collector might rather pay $7 for a reprint than $100 for something that might be fake anyway.
I don't give a rip if it's good business. I'd rather not buy completely worthless crap, which is what I see reprints as being. Sorry, but I have very little respect for whichever dealer made that comment.
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Permalink Reply by Geoff LaVeine on
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I suppose there is an arguement that can be made that some people would choose to buy a preprint to display for decorative purposes. Some people frame photos without autographs, so perhaps having just the correct look of a real autograph on the photo may give a nice presentation to it. But I wouldn't want a preprint. I think if somebody buys a high quality preprinted photo for 5 bucks and they KNOW it is not real to begin with, then it's not really an issue. That price seems fair. But when people get ripped off paying hundreds of dollars thinking an item was authentically signed and it wasn't...that's a bad situation.
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Permalink Reply by Richard S. Simon on
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ebay is afloat with reprints now.
Not their fault , the sellers do ID the item as a repro, but there is a ton of it out there now.
I have actually seen repros being auctioned off,,, like they were something that could not be replaced by the click of a mouse on your computer software.
it seems like the supply on ebay of reprints far exceeds whatever demand there is.
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I might object to this trend less if I thought the ratio of authentic examples to forgeries was any better in the reprint arena. A lot of these reprint sellers look to be either terrible forgers or dumb as rocks, thinking their cheap forgery must be authentic and hence is justifiable to reproduce indefinitely. Either way, they're making money for nothing (even if it's not the pure killing the forgers passing their garbage off as authentic are making), and it's hard to applaud that.
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they are dumb as rocks, the reprint sellers have no clue as to what is real and what is fake.
I have to laugh at the concept, reprints of forgeries,,, too much, way too much.
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Permalink Reply by Mike P on
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I "admire" how dealers bad mouth collectors and buyers of autographs. They keep you guys in business, and for those who do it for a living, no offense, but it's really you that should be talked of in such a negative manner. In Italy I would go to soccer games and sometimes get an autograph here and there; many of which I would give to my relatives who were also fans etc. I value the pcitures I took with the athletes I supported more than a scribble on a paper or picture. people nowadays stalk these poor celebrities, just for profit. Get an auto at an event where you pay, whether it be a private signing, a match, a concert where you actually pay. but to obtain signatures for a living and swindle the customers who keep you in business and further call them idiots is an outright shame. Just my two cents
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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on
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how is taking an autograph obtained in person and reselling to a willing customer "swindling" him/her? As a collector of autographs, I would much rather pay someone who was willing to deal with the aggravation and sweat of obtaining something in person, as I do not have the time, nor the patience to do it.
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Swindling by making reprints. Every collector starts off as a novice. Without aml a lot of us would be lost as most of us don't get signatures for a living and some people have limited resources. not every person has the means to check authenticity and some people believe that if it's on a website auction, commercial etc it has to be real. Yes, it is sort of simple by comparing with authentic exemplars and such but fakes exceed authentic pieces tenfold and more; some buyers are just parents and relatives who try to give an auto as a gift to a child etc and don't realize this. This is what bothers me personally about forheroes. Especially when young kids hold an item to a high acclaim not knowing it's a fake so cheats can make a living. getting back to reprints,to swindle and cheat collecting saying they are authentic pieces and call buyers idiots is inexcusable and just morally wrong.
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Permalink Reply by Peter C. on
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My point of view (and I dont mean that personally against anyone I just want to say my position):
I think that the autograph business is the worst thing that ever happened for real fans. I dont consider myself as "collector" because my goal is not to get as much autographs as I can... My goal is to personally meet (and get the autographs) of people who really means a lot to me. For example - ask yourself - how many times did you see the concert (musicians) / TV shows (hosts or other TV stars) / how many sport events... I think that the problem is, that people who will give you the answer "zero, why?" is growing. Honestly, I can tell you, that when you are REAL fan of the person who gives you autograph, you will recognize that it is pleasure for him/her to give an autograph to you. I think that its about respect from both sides. Example: I was really angry when I saw the pictures from autograph session with Purple in Russia and people were giving to the current lineup of the band the albums which had absolutely no relation to them (for music fans who knows - Roger Glover signed them even albums like Burn!). I consider this as absolutely disrespectful. When I was lucky to meet them, I gave Roger to sign the album called Accidentaly On Purpose (the "obscured" but great record from late 80s) and he was suprised to see that, he said to me - quote "you have a great taste man!" and signed it with real pleasure. To me, autographs are about THIS, not about money, not about "I would like to have this musician in my collection, because he is big name" etc... It should be a top level of "being fan". And how many people are you able to admire at this level?
My opinion for making this situation better, just to think about these ideas: never give the artists "Greatest Hits / Best Of" albums to sign (because real fans are buying these records just to "complete the discography" and they are almost worthless for them); stop to ask them sign pickards, instruments etc - always give them stuff they are really related with!; do not give them photographs (other than personal ones - for example from previous meet&greets); never give them the record which has no relation to them (one youtube video from signing by Roger Waters is great example - one guy said: "I saw you with Pink Floyd in 1988!" - no real fan would ever say this! the fan got the bass signed and I have absolutely no doubts that he sold it immediately)... Im talking about music scene, but Im sure that you can find similarities for other "branches" of collecting...
I hope that you can understand how I meant that, my English is far from perfect. :)
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