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Is JSA now authenticating forgeries?

I am a new member although I do frequently read articles and forum posts from this site because they populate in Google search when I do research on various autographs.  

Let me say first and foremost that this post is not to cause drama or ill feelings.  I realize that there are a lot of people who are partial to TPA's and in all truthfulness, I myself prefer items that are certified by major 3rd party authentication companies.  

I frequent eBay and make the majority of my purchases from ebay and like many of you, I usually add PSA or JSA to the search bar with whatever I am looking to buy.  For instance, If I am looking to buy a Mickey Mantle signed baseball, I might query ( Mickey Mantle baseball PSA ).  

While I am very capable of telling whether a Mantle is real or fake, I realize that should I ever want to resell the item that having a TPA on it will certainly help me.  So, typically I buy items that are already certified.  At the very least, it is a second opinion on what I already feel about the item.  I don't buy simply based on the sticker, because I have seen a lot of items that I disagree with TPA's on.  

My reason for this post is to call in to question James Spence ( JSA ) on some very questionable items I have been seeing as of late.  Most of the items that I have seen have been Music and Entertainment.  Has anyone else noticed that JSA is seemingly giving blanket authentication to items as of late.  This concerns me as someone who has a large portion of my collection authenticated by JSA.   While, I know that my JSA authenticated items are real, if they ruin their reputation, the resell value of these items will tank.  This is very concerning.  I wanted to get some opinions as to what is going on here?  Is JSA going the route of Global?  As a long time collector I remember when Global was actually a legitimate authentication company but in no time seemed to turn in to a blanket authentication company.  

I am not trying to bash JSA but from what I've been seeing the last few months, I feel about 500% more confident in PSA when it comes to Music and Entertainment autographs.  What made me decide to make this post was a conversation I had today with a guy I met at a show a while back.  I would occasionally get him to have stuff authenticated if a major TPA was at a show he was going to.  Well, he called me tonight out of the blue and said that James Spence and his son were going to be at his house and asked me if I had any items I needed authenticated.  

This conversation made me feel that perhaps Spence is a bit to chummy with people he is authenticating for.  I don't like that one bit.  I don't want the authenticator drinking an ice cold beer with the person selling the autographs.  It seems to be a serious conflict of interest and in all honesty, I have felt a serious decline in my level of trust in JSA.   

Another interesting thing I want to touch base on is a company called GFA.  There is one specific seller who is using about 5 different ebay ids to pump out countless amounts of forgeries from this supposed forensic expert.  

This seller has used 5 names to sell well over 75,000 dollars in forgeries all certified by GFA.  I have reported his items to eBay but because he is a power seller they seem to never pull the listings.  I decided to do a PSA quick opinion on several of his offerings and all 4 of the quick opinions failed.  I notified him that the items failed PSA Quick Opinion and this was his response

" It's not even worth dignifying this with a response but if the stuff I've been selling is fake, then I've been ripped off for the past year by my merchandiser. I gave up on those idiots at the "big authentication companies" when I sent them items that I had personally witnessed being signed and they came back as "likely not authentic". Why is it "likely"? Because it's their opinion..

As you can see, GFA is another company that gives blanket authentication and should absolutely be added to eBay's banned COA list.  

Here is a few active auctions with GFA certs. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dale-Earnhardt-Richard-Petty-Signed-8x10-Ph...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mickey-Mantle-Signed-8x10-Photo-Autographed...

In closing, I sincerely hope that I haven't offended anyone with my first post.  It just bothers me to see JSA authenticating so many questionable entertainment items.  It would be horribly sad to see them sell out for the quick buck.  

 

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by wascher on October 22, 2014 at 6:12pm

Do either authenticate for others instead of just sell? 

Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on October 25, 2014 at 4:51am

Not that I am aware of.  I have read articles in the past in which they had been mentioned as consultants.  I am not sure if they still offer their services to the historical autograph industry.

Permalink Reply by kevin conway on October 24, 2014 at 9:08am

  I have had my own issues with PSA and JSA.. However, In the end they are the best we have right now.   They make mistakes but it is a FRACTION of what I've seen from the other authenticators.   And no one can discount the "forgery containment value" of Legitimate third party authentication.   There is a reason forgers and less reputable dealers despise PSA and JSA....  take some of the well known 3rd party bashers, look at their own websites of "consistently questionable" autographs or eBay stores and you will see WHY they continually trash PSA and JSA...

  Not unlike the days when Cigarette manufacturers were attacking health professionals who spoke out on the dangers of smoking....

Permalink Reply by Jason Poulos on October 25, 2014 at 4:00am

Kevin,

            Trashing and constructive criticism are two totally different things.  Would you agree? 

Permalink Reply by kevin conway on October 25, 2014 at 8:21am


  Absolutely Jason.    The sometimes volatile "competency" of the authentication services is a very valid argument....  as I mentioned I have had my own issues with Both PSA and JSA.. a couple even outrageous blunders...  JSA actually failed a genuine 3 Stooges set of autographs I sent recently, because they MIXED it up with a Non-genuine set of 3 Stooges from another customer!  I was appalled! 

On the other hand, I find the incessant "trashing" from the same people (and we know historically who they are) is more of a sign of the "trasher" trying to suppress any independent analysis of their fake autographs.

Permalink Reply by posterguy on October 25, 2014 at 3:06am

http://www.historyforsale.com/html/prodetails.asp?documentid=177756...

Can't speak for the other autos but that Locklear is bogus imo.

Permalink Reply by kevin conway on October 25, 2014 at 8:47am

  I think what is important to point out is, WHAT and WHO...

  For example, if you send a vintage Hollywood signature to JSA and they follow protocol using their "Vintage Hollywood" expert who is Tom Kramer, you are gong to get a First Class authentication as Tom is one of the best classic Hollywood authenticators in the business.   But Tom is not an expert in and does NOT look at modern signatures like Brad Pitt or Stars Wars celebrities (and he will be the first to tell you).    Same with PSA.  If Steve Grad sees your Mickey Mantle or Babe Ruth it is HIGHLY unlikely he is going to make a mistake.

  Along with No "Opt Out" procedure, this is one of the biggest flaws in the authentication industry...   You never know WHO is the authenticator of your autograph, it remains a big secret.   And the cert letters usually have a "canned , printed signature".  Most likely NOT the person who conducted the analysis.   Based on my own experience a good percentage of mistakes take place at these temporary setups at Shows and Conventions where the PSA sport's guy with a beer in one hand and a hot dog in the other (in case any of your JFK letters come back with ketchup or mustard on it..) is trying to authenticate a JFK signed letter which he really has no expertise in , so he FAILS it, instead of "opting out".    And these "one size fits all" authenticators . i.e. sports experts trying to do historical or Hollywood autographs is where the major blunders occur and the authentication companies do great harm and discredit themselves. ..  one day, hopefully an authentication service will emerge with the same skill level as JSA or PSA, but one that will exact a standard along with more transparency which will be a significant benefit to the entire collectibles industry not to mention more universal credibility of the authentication services..

  So although both JSA and PSA have "Meet our experts" on their websites ,we never know if the appropriate expert actually did the authentication or some less qualified, unknown fill in...?

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