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JSA and PSA - what has happened?

First let me say , I have always been a proponent of 3^rd party independent authentication, because I believe it curtails the forgery industry. And I still believe that.

However I have always had mixed feelings about the competency of these 3rd party authentication services. And sometimes their questionable competence is enough to drive me to Rant, on internet autograph forums… Here’s why:

1. It is a sloppy highly subjective process more than any other collecting genre.
2. After all these years, STILL No standards that the public is aware of, which 1. above is a product of.
3. Most Authenticators have no documented governing credentials.
4.There’s a “good ole boy” network of players that influence (often negatively) the autograph collecting industry. For example, the same autograph can fail from one source but Pass from a “network member” source. Just look at the examples below of PSA and JSA certified JFK signatures and note that some are a dead match to the one I sent JSA, that they could NOT authenticate. But, PSA ad JSA seem to authenticate countless cryptic very similar JFK signatures for autograph auction houses that offer high volumes of business for PSA and JSA.

A couple months ago I acquired a JFK Signed campaign insert (see below).   I thoroughly researched it with Hamilton’s “JFK Robot” book, JFK Presidential appointments and letters, and PSA and JSA certified IN-person style signatures of that era (1960). And found Several highly consistent matches to the one below I sent to JSA.     After about 4 weeks JSA returned mine with one of the “we can’t opin” letters and a credit of my $150 to use on future authentications.      Not sure I’ll ever have to use it as my confidence with PSA and JSA has dwindled over the years. If you cant opin after 4 weeks with my JFK how can I expect you to authenticate other signatures?

One of the reasons I option for JSA over PSA is at least they will Opt out . Whereas my experience with PSA has been if they don’t know , they’ll just fail it and cash your check.    But, that’s another story.

These repeating experiences with PSA and JSA has been the #1 reason I have gradually lost interest in autographs.     I won’t use the word ”shady” but it is a highly flawed collecting genre with no reliable resource of "experts" to consult, far more vulnerable than any other genre I have experienced. And being born with Collecting ADD, Ive collected about everything over the past 35 years..

So today after getting Another “Cannot Opin” from JSA, I am truly dispirited with autograph collecting and selling.

And dont get me started on these self proclaimed "best in the business" chest thumpers... ,.... I'd just ask, based on what data or examination credentials ??

I guess I could always send this JFK Signed item into one of the auctions houses or dealers who have closer "relationship" with JSA or PSA and get an immediate letter of authenticity.

Rant over…

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 28, 2017 at 5:05pm

Once the dealers brought more money to the TPA's they have become a major hinderance to the hobby. What started out as a place for collectors to get an opinion on an item has since become a tool for large volume dealers to sell. Dealers and the dollars are the priority. To many collectors out there are dilusioned that these places have their best interests at heart. They do not and haven't for years. If they can please a couple collectors along the way great.

Whatever happened at PSA has been boxed up and is now the same problem at Beckett. Might as well toss those guys in the same group. They just as bad.

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Permalink Reply by marc e on August 28, 2017 at 5:22pm

amen brother .its called greed and to some point colliusion

when they can issue 1000 certs to one dealer in bulk and get payed way to easy.

and when one authenticator becomes a tv star and his word is gold now .its screwed

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 28, 2017 at 5:37pm

Yeah. I laugh when people toss his name around like he's something special. He got his name branded early in the TPA world. I know 10 guys who are better authenticators and have a wider range.

The real comedy to all this is the beginners who are being taken for a ride still believe these guys are here to protect them are the ones who continue to beat their drums. No chance I send anything to any of these TPAs. I've had two offers in last 6 months to get my stuff done by PSA and Beckett for $10 bucks a shot regardless of signature.I turned both down. Saved the texts though. Their own authenticators are undermining the companies and freelancing with their lossely guarded stickers.

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Permalink Reply by marc e on August 28, 2017 at 5:47pm

the unfunny thing .people will buy anything if it has a coa.

they dont know better ,doesnt matter whos name is on it.

the problem with the so called tps is the can kill a deal if they dont sign off on your itiem wich suchs now.

i rember just being happy when the artist put pen to what ever u had, now its placement,contrast .so many varibles

before ,people tracked down the source .i littearly had people all the time buying from my apartment .they come shop and leave, also supplied some very large companies.20 plus years ago.

cant do that any more ebay killed the autograph bussiness in my opinion.

they took what ever was fake and made it an internation world wide bussiness from cds ,photos to guitars and made the price of real stuff plumette.

rant over

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Permalink Reply by Mike White on August 29, 2017 at 12:06pm

the unfunny thing .people will buy anything if it has a coa.

Then "people" are idiots.

i rember just being happy when the artist put pen to what ever u had, now its placement,contrast .so many varibles

Not wanting black ink in a black field is absolutely nothing new.

You expect me to believe that a signature that you couldn't see because it was in the wrong place with the wrong ink color was something that you were just as happy about as a signature that's in a good ink & in a good spot so that you could actually see that it's there?

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Permalink Reply by marc e on August 29, 2017 at 12:19pm

yes its true if you have ever gone after page dylan clapton springsteen or the real superstars who dont realy sign your happy they take take the pen anything after that it gravy.

go ask bob dylan or jimmy page for placement and contrast.

its real easy getting roger waters while he sits in his car but 99 percent of mega stars arent like that.

ps we use blue ink pen not black ,black yellows and oxidize

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on August 28, 2017 at 6:06pm

Funny story ...when I was on Pawn Stars a couple years ago I had two episodes with their "PSA Authenticator". Both were obviously genuine so didn’t even need his opinion..

Then Rick asks for his opinion on value? I look at Rick and say, "He doesn’t know, he's not an appraiser". Rick regurgitates, "he's the best in the business". I say "No he's not, and he is Not a appraiser. His company does no appraising, they are not even in the selling business".

The Director cracked up.. and then says to me in our next episode, “Kevin, say to Steve he has his head up his ass”…. I said, “even if I do they will cut it out”. I have no animosity, I just think this unsubstantiated "best in the business" drivel is quite comical.. I ask by what official measure or “authenticator certification”?.. Can you believe there is NO Certification for the so-called experts that are expert “certifiers”, like in every other “expert” driven” professions?

As a matter of fact, the guy on Pawn Stars probably got that gig via relationships from the same “inside players club” I mentioned in the original post…. i.e, you’re either an “insider” with benefits or a disadvantaged “outsider”.

PSA, JSA, and ?

And , then there were THREE...YIKES!! Beam Me Up Scotti !!

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Permalink Reply by marc e on August 28, 2017 at 6:25pm

ive done the show a few times

they had steve give autograph values it was funny

they also do alot of research before u get there about ur itiem. they low ball you.

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Permalink Reply by kevin conway on August 29, 2017 at 7:47am

It definitely seems to have gone to his head. I had two high value items, $5k plus each. So sitting in the waiting room, they come and say "the authenticator wants to see the book". I say, “well tell him to come down and look at it”, as I'm not about to let it out of my sight in the backroom of a pawn shop.

So he sends the girl back down to take pictures of it.. Which seemed arrogant with a false sense of importance. .. I mean lets face it , its a pretty trivial job, not like designing a complicated website or performing open heart surgery. Its autograph collecting...LOL

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Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on August 28, 2017 at 5:44pm

Yes,theres one or two dealers that Rick and I know who seem to get everything passed with a sticker. Lines,squiggles,doesnt matter whatever they have passes. Sure makes you wonder!