Authenticity is Everything
Liza Minnelli Autopen - Kids, Wait Till You Hear This!
Starting this separate thread to track the Liza Minnelli autopen situation.
Signed copies of her new book, Kids Wait Till You Hear This!, include autopen signatures.
You may also visit the original Liza Minnelli thread, established when the book was announced, to read about the initial development of this issue:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/liza-minelli-kids-w...
Feel free to post your examples or any info on the return situation.
Overlay Video 1 (click title to play video)
Note how “Liza” matches up (click title)
-First round, note how the “Love” appears to overlay nearly exactly
-Second round, the circle of the smiley face appears to overlap closely, and the L is starting to line up as well
-Third round, the Z and the A in “Liza” appear to lineup closely.
Notice how almost all of the smiley face lines up on this one
-With a slight adjustment, notice how the Z and the A start to align as well
Watch the top of the smiley face. All I am doing is bringing the circle of the smiley face into line. Watch how the Z falls into place. Watch how the top loop of the L falls into place. The “A” is a little off and also the “I” but you can see how they seem to be off by a very small and consistent distance.
Watch how the “OVE” lines up exactly on two examples received by the same person
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Some of the segments are individually lining up….yet the two signatures appear different on face and when overlaid as a whole.
Example:
First, notice how the L lines up in “Love”:
Make a slight adjustment that then brings the “ove” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the L of “Liza” into line:
Slightly adjust again to bring the Z and A into alignment (also notice the “I” and the comma):
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It appears that the autopen signatures in these books were generated by an advanced autopen machine that can produce subtle variations in letter structure and placement that would disguise the use of autopen. Please see this video to learn more on how this works:
A thread has also been created to make others aware of this type of autopen usage and discuss if interested:
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/beware-of-the-new-a...
Tags: Autopen, Hear, Kids, Liza, Minnelli, This!, Till, Wait, You
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Marcus Green
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Nope, I have asked but nothing appears to be forthcoming at this point. I imagine if one of the major media outlets were to pick this up they'd have something to say.
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Example in this Facebook post of something she signed two years ago, looking nothing like the book signatures:
- Attachments: No photo uploads here
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Screenshot_20260316-124639.png, 515 KB
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Permalink Reply by Matt M.
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Thanks Chris and Marcus, that’s good to know. Please keep us posted on this. Chris, I appreciate your example and have saved it for comparison.
I’m working today and will probably get back to comparisons later. I may need a little break lol. I’ll still be tracking the thread and saving examples though. Thank you to everyone who has participated in helping figure this out. We’ll hopefully we get to the bottom of it.
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Permalink Reply by Mikhell
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Here are my two examples and an overlay of the two. I'm going to be very disappointed if this turns out to be autopen but I must say I was suspicious when I received them this morning ,from two different sources in the UK.
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Liza_01.jpg, 390 KB -
Liza_02.jpg, 403 KB
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Thanks Michell, and I appreciate you doing that overlay. I’m very familiar with this type of result as it has happened many times in my comparisons. It’s like things were just shifted slightly and some parts appear to be off by just a hair. Sometimes when you make that shift, multiple parts line up. And granted, sometimes not.
IMO you have a Z and A that are part of some sort of template. Yes, it’s a simple Z and a small simple a. There’s going to be some similarities when you write those letters over and over. But I don’t see how they overlap exactly with the exact same spacing as I have shown in some of my examples.
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Michell, i’m not sure how much you may have played around with your overlay or if you just took a still shot.
I moved the Z over in line which shows this:
You can see some of it is off, but the IZA appears to come into line well.
Make a slight adjustment with the same two autographs, and Love starts to line up:
I recognize that it is not a perfect match. Also that the “ove” have differences. This is just what I found with a couple adjustments in a short time. I understand that could be a result of them being by hand, or an advanced autopen machine/software
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Permalink Reply by JIMMY JAMES
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Sorry, but I continue to subsribe to the Matt M. school of thinking:
"Any points that may not line up exactly are not as concerning as how much of it does overlay."
The mission statement of this whole forum is Authenticity is Everything.
It's NOT Matt's opinion, it's Fact and Proof that Matt M has shown concrete examples of overlaying components among different exemplars.
Yes in Frank's two exemplars it is only a small piece of "ove" that repeats BUT
it remains concerning that it does exactly overlay.
Liza is 80, she used AI on her latest music single.
Liza denied using AI to "read" her audiobook, but the wide consensus is to the contrary.
I totally believe Liza used an Advanced version Autopen with Multiple Templates to sign some/many/all of these books, and this will come out in due time.
The Big 3 Legit Authenticators will probably fail many of these or not even touch them.
This whole debacle stinks...akin to the Bob Dylan Book/Art fraud.
At first everybody was in disbelief, and Bob himself, Publishers and Art houses denied any wrongdoing.
That didn't age well, and neither will Liza's situation.
JJ
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