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Authenticity is Everything
Odd Harrison QE 2 menu on eBay
While we're on the subject of George, how about this oddity currently on eBay with a start price of $1,500.
If it were genuine it would be great but I have pretty major doubts. It seems to be trying a bit too hard and there some very odd flowery bits. Parts of the inscription actually look more like Ringo's work (e.g. the "To"). Another big problem is that George was probably not on the ship on the menu date (2 September 1971). According to a blog I saw (that may be wrong of course) he boarded the ship on 22 September. If the dates are right, I hardly think George would have been asked to sign a three week old menu.
Thoughts?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by KarlKeaton on
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So you think it's feasible that the menu might have been lying around for 45 years somewhere in cyberspace waiting for one of those devious forgers to tie up the dates of an obscure ocean crossing that it's hard to even date accurately but it is not feasible that the menu might have been lying around for a matter of just days on the ship where it was issued? You can't have it both ways, these menus either get saved by people or they don't, be it for days or decades.
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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on
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People yes, waiters unlikely. But why have them around, especially in the dining room, if that was where this was signed?
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They do get saved by passengers, I once had a 1934 Mauretania menu with samples of the food dried, labelled and attached. Talk about ephemeral. That brought a nice $$$. And these menus do get used in this way, unfortunately. Not all forgers are compete idiots. Outdated menus are NOT wanted in the dining room. Why not sign a current menu of the day? George had one in front of him and the waiter had extras.
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Remember the menu recently from Vegas that has a "1952 Monroe" signature but the menu was shown with some digging to be post 1960 from the logo and looking at matchbooks and postcards of the day.
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Eric, I'm not claiming that these deceptions aren't possible or don't happen. I know that they do, I've seen it myself.
Having said that there are degrees of likelihood and nothing that we know about this item excludes the possibility that both the item and the story attached to it are authentic. A John Lennon autograph on something from 1981 could be deduced to be bogus on that fact alone but that doesn't apply in this case.
I don't think that anybody on this forum has outright declared that they think this signature is fake, just that it's unusual in some ways/rushed and there are some pretty knowledgeable and experienced members here when it comes to The Beatles (and many others).
I just think it's a bit premature and unfair (to the items owner) for us to discuss the ways in which it might have been forged unless we have any real reason to believe that it has been forged.
My personal opinion is that it's rushed but authentic but my opinion is just that. Now if none of the respected and experienced members on this forum are willing to openly declare it to be fake then I think it should take a qualified opinion against it's authenticity before we condemn it.
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I have given no real opinion on the signature nor have I suggested it is actually false.
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No but you've 'tarnished' it with all your spreading of doubt and, I think flawed logic (that a menu wouldn't have been kept for days but might have been kept for 45 years and then used for fraudulent purposes). If you have no opinion then why spread that doubt about the item?
People here aren't shy when they think something is fake, just look at some of the current threads in the Beatles Autographs forum and not one person has said that they believe the autograph is fake.
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That was obviously not my intention. In my liner circles such a date from a previous crossing actually is a problem in this context - I thought I'd share.
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Permalink Reply by a pug called eva on
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Yes, this is an odd one. No one has said it's definitely right, nobody has said it's definitely wrong and no one has posted examples of inscriptions and signatures that are very similar to it. I suspect summer holidays might be playing a role here.
The menu date point might be a red herring but I think it is valid to consider it too, especially in the absence of further evidence, such as the waiter's own story - direct or passed down.
I'd suggest we just wait to see if others chip in with similar exemplars or concrete facts about the date of Harrison's trip.
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+1
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+1
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Permalink Reply by Beatleworld on
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I think the inscription is in another hand using another pen, this might be throwing some people....forget the date and what it is signed on, is it authentic or not is the main question that needs an answer...on a quick look, it seems ok to me
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