Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on December 19, 2012 at 6:41pm

He obviously wasnt who he said he was. It wouldnt surprise me if everything was a lie. Probalby just another member from the forging community. Oh well, it wouldnt surprise me if he makes another appearance though under another name.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 19, 2012 at 7:09pm

Carl, now that you mention, his demeanor did seem very familiar.  

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Permalink Reply by Chad B on January 14, 2013 at 11:32am

I thought the discussion was interesting. I wish Steve would not have booted the guy. It seemed a bit of "rude" was coming from a few different directions.

Autograph collecting is a tough hobby where trust and experience is a big issue. I enjoy seeing people go back and forth to see what floats to the top.

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Permalink Reply by Adin1978 on March 10, 2013 at 8:20am

Guys, I'm not a collector, just a movie. I purchased this for my wife from autographcollection.co.uk as a Christmas gift. Can any of you tell me your thoughts? Reading these posts I'm thinking I should ask for my money back. Any info would be greatly appreciated. FYI... Steve Warner owns the company I purchased this from and is a member of the forum.

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Permalink Reply by Adin1978 on March 10, 2013 at 8:39am

Sorry guys novice not movie. And I attached a little clearer picture of the autograph.

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Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on March 10, 2013 at 9:14am

impossible to tell from that photo

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Permalink Reply by Darren Ruskin, III on April 29, 2013 at 2:07am

just from the parts I can see in the terrible photo i can tell you it is not authentic..D

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on April 29, 2013 at 11:35am

I actually thought perhaps this thread had been taken off ?

We need to move on from this guys.

The Top USA Authenticators say these are Fake and some UK Dealers are advising they are genuine

So its a stalemate

Its all done / finished / its a wrap !!!

Can we move on please

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Permalink Reply by Carl Ryan on April 29, 2013 at 6:35pm

Why give up Gary? Its a very debatable issue, and a very important one. And when considering who is saying real vs fake, its very important to know who is saying what. This thread may end out of lack of motivation, but it certainly doesnt need to go away.

I have to say, and this doesnt include you Gary, that i have seen alot of dealers from the UK trying to get things swept under the rug. No doubt about it. I hear things like "we need to get past this", "you have forgers at your doorstep", "east vs west", "just drop it", etc etc etc quite often. And i think its a complete disservice. Why drop something that is vital to buyers. If a great deal of likely forgeries were produced in the UK or US, then they need to be talked about and exposed. I firmly believe that the powers be within the now AFTAL want nothing more than for this to go away. They dont want it talked about in any way. And whats worse, with the exception of losing some good members, their will likely be no consequences for the guilty in regards to what happened. Its vital for the collecting community to know this. We should never end a discussion on something of this type of importance.

I still find this very important, b/c if i were in the market for a Paul M, i know that i would probably highly consider buying from a UK dealer, mainly b/c they are more accessible to the man, and they probably get more signatures, thus giving me a better price. And if their is a chance that some shady character put a bunch of bad Pauls out their in the market place, then i want to know about that. I dont care if half say yes and half say no, i want to know about it. I want to know who said bad vs good, and study those people. I want to have the option to avoid similar pieces b/c they could have come from the same source. They may very well be good, but i dont want a controversial piece in my collection, and i want that knowledge open to me. I dont care if the fight is between the best authenticators in the UK vs US, it doesnt matter. In that case i would definetly want the option to stay away, b/c its very controversial, and if im paying Paul M prices, then i want a good solid piece. Opinions are like awholes, but i certainly want all the info i can about certain pieces.

Thats why topics like this are so crucial and need to still be discussed and not given up on.

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Permalink Reply by Darren Ruskin, III on April 30, 2013 at 1:21am

well that is not entirely true Carl. i did not get my first mccartney autograph until i moved to the states. he is now in the states just as much or more than he is over in the u.k. now...D

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on May 2, 2013 at 3:13pm

Hi Carl Thanks for your message, I really don’t know what too say that has not already been said. I have distanced myself from all of this now as its Old Hat! I can state at this moment……the Forgers have won!

But I’m sure this will never go away. Fake versus Genuine needed to be highlighted and it was ……but the Forgers have won and now I’m tired of it

At the end of the day items raised as Questionable by Roger Epperson and Steve Cyrkin were proved to be in fact FAKE, with the following facts to be noted

‘In person’ collected and sold items were in fact obtained via a 3^rd party, by handing said items into the Celebrity via Security Operatives.
They were NOT signed in front of the Collector, so questions had to be asked as why they were being sold as ‘In Person’
These Items were sold as obtained ‘In Person’ and for large sums of money and issued with life time COAs’
No refunds or letters offering advice or concern have been offered to any of the purchasers of these items
There is an estimate of 200 items plus that were obtained and distributed at the time

With all these points raised many UK Dealers have chose to bury their heads in the sand, stating ‘’It did not affect them, I didn’t buy any of them, even though I was offered multiples of them, so it is of no concern to me’’

Only a small amount of Dealers actually reacted to this absolute Crime. When they did react in which ever particular method they chose, they were issued threats whilst taking their actions.
Threats of Violence and Threats of Legal Proceedings being taken against them The majority have chosen to say nothing, which is understandable

As for myself, when did I ever believe that what began, by standing outside a Theatre in 1974 for a signature would eventually escalate via other events to a Individual knocking at my house on my front door at 21-00 hrs in February 2013 making threats of Violence and Offering Intimidation against me ?

Enough is enough from that moment from me . If that's what it means to these people, then its pure greed and its surely illegal ? But to be intimidated and threatened for voicing an opinion on here its really put me off all of this.

However I can state the Fakes will not disappear

This subject will rise again in the future when some collector wants to cash in on his $1200 to $2000 investment of a wonderful signed, collected 'In Person'  Michael Jackson 10x8.

This investment will carry a COA backed or issued by a Well Renown UK Dealer which states the item is Genuine and was obtained 'In Person' backed and a Highly Priced Original Sales receipt

This collector will try to sell it or Consign for Auction and then BOOM………..!!!!!

They will then find Numerous UK Dealers will not touch the item, and Auction Houses will seek Clarification on Authenticity, if they use a US Authenticator it most probably will fail the test and the circle begins again.

Will the Respected UK Dealer issue a refund ?
Or will he continue to state that it is Genuine !

He will most probably state that the item to be considered FAKE that he will require proof provided by 2 Worldwide known and Recognised Authenticators

The 2 Worldwide known and Recognised Authenticators must NOT be any of the following :
Roger Epperson

RR Auction

Steve Cyrkin

Most USA Authentication dealers and societies 

Plus from the UK ………..Garry King our UACC / Ebay Authenticator

That makes it very difficult for the seller, as the seller then will depend on the people in the UK to ask for Authentication. We really don’t have anyone here at this moment if Garry King is taken out of the role

So does the purchaser then ask a Dealer associated with the Dealer who originally sold him the item? They could keep it in house! It goes on deeper and deeper!

Carl, I think I will just wait for this to happen and see the actions and reactions at that time. I’m keeping out of it for the time being

Regarding Paul McCartney, your right. He signs more prolific here in the UK. He walks around London with NO Security most of the time, he is accessible in the street and loves to sign, signature quality is not always good though but he does sign!

As ever if you’re buying one from any Dealer you have to seek Authentication and you know the names of good guys out there. Don’t let any of this put you off and good luck with your collection

 

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Permalink Reply by CHRISTOPHER WALLACE on May 14, 2013 at 10:25pm

i dont like any of them

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