Authenticity is Everything
Pop Century and Clint Eastwood
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Selby on
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I'm a fan as well, been collecting since the RAZOR days. I'm not trying to indict Pop Century except for possibly relying on contracts and affidavits to a fault. I believe that most of what they produce is legit but you have to wonder about the stuff that falls through the cracks (ie autopen) and why it wasn't caught before box insertion.
They are also having a problem this year with Ari Lehman sigs being fake because the paperwork went through a fraudulent vendor. A casual look up of Ari's legitimate signature and the pop century stuff looks really bad. According to released statements Leaf is going to fix it. This also was the case with Rittenhouse a few years ago. Panini seems to not care unless the media circus around the bad sig is big enough. I still have my Florida Georgia Line cards. The guarantee on the back is only as good as the action the company is going to take if something goes wrong....or stays in business.
Unless Leaf records or witnesses every autograph session the celebrity submitting secretarial sigs will always be a possibility. This is why I believe the standard of licensed autograph card grading must also include authentication. There is something wrong with the concept of having a gem mint 10 with a grade 10 autograph and the signature could still be a fake.At the very least it is confusing for many collectors who think a slabbed or ebay guarantee card is also an authenticated one.
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Permalink Reply by Jason H on
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I was not aware of Ari.. thats amazing. We moved to an area in illinois where he is one of the most popular celebrities to visit consistently. Its a rural area and never expected celebrities to come here so its treated as a big deal. Im told hes been here 8 times and also came thru not far away in Springfield a bunch of times as well, more recently with his band. Ive personally never been to one of these appearances yet, only lived here for 2 years but have heard stories from collectors in the area. Since he's been so accessible over the years, they treat him like he's one of their own. They tell me his only fault is loving his weed a bit too much but no problems with signing items.
He is definitely not someone id expect to have fake "authentic" signatures from out in the wild but these circumstances are a good reminder that sometimes its not the fault of the celebrity at all and that yes, every single autograph obtained without witnessing it yourself should be thoroughly researched. Im glad leaf is trying to correct this problem but wow thats amazing it even happened
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Permalink Reply by crazyrabbits23 on
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Instances like this (and there have been several over the years) is why I've stayed far away from signed card collecting. There are far too many grey areas and concerns to justify paying bloated premiums for autographs on cards, especially from licensed distributors:
1) Companies taking legitimate autos on letters/inscriptions, cutting them in ugly ways and then selling them at huge premiums. (I'm looking at the Topps Transcendent Collection/Upper Deck Master Collection as the biggest offenders, though by no means the only ones).
2) No checks and balances outside the word of third-party vendors/agents regarding the validity of signed cards, as most card distributors don't have the manpower to personally witness the signings.
3) Nothing stopping fake or secretarial signatures being sent to distributors, who are putting their own CoA behind it and passing it off as beyond reproach.
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Some good points but I also believe the problems so far have been minimal and I would think the margin of error to be equal of even less than most reputable sellers. The problem for a card company is a single negative incident tends to blow up in the hobby while other sellers can often handle a problem discretely.
At the same time the card manufacturer produces a limited and licensed product while publicly advertising celebrity representation. They are a big enough target to sue if negligence gets out of hand. I see some justification for higher prices but that only goes so far.
I have been collecting in the non sports category for over 25 years and for about 20 of them it was a really nice ride. The hobby seemed to fly below the radar of the crazed sports card market. Sadly with the generated hype that so many non sports autograph cards are one and done along with ebay sales tax I have been contemplating getting out of the hobby all together.
I won't lie but another concern I have is just how much in bed with the card manufacturers are the third party authentication/grading companies? There seems to be a relationship right now that is making an obscene amount of money.
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I look at the card market, and more broadly the collecting market as a whole, as being on a very tenuous hill right now.
We're past the "boom era" of pandemic-related handouts fueling spending in the collectibles market, which is what to a lot of inflated pricing (to say nothing of the violence and anger that fueled confrontations at retail stores and card shops) over new products, particularly in the CCG space. There have been some big-ticket busts in the sports card market (I'm looking at Zion Williamson and a number of overhyped rookies in the basketball card market, but by no means the only ones), and a number of distributors have built in the price of signatures, big-ticket or not, into the asking price of premium products.
This has fueled offerings, from Leaf, Topps, Upper Deck and others, at absurdly-inflated prices, while simultaneously making it so that opening any of this product is highly unlikely to lead you to make any of your money back if you're in the business of trying to recoup the cost of what you bought.
I would argue that non-sports auto cards have only really hit the mainstream in terms of popularity within the last 5-10 years, but there's little-to-no reason for me to invest hundreds into even a single signed card when I could buy (or find) the same thing either in the form of a signed book or a lucky pickup at a thrift store for a sliver of the price.
I just don't know how long the market can prop itself up, particularly with the impact of inflation on manufacturing/distribution costs being transferred to the buyer.
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These are examples from the recent Official Pix signing. There are more than 40 consistent examples on their facebook page.
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Permalink Reply by BGK on
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Ari's comments are downright flabbergasting. The fraud is apparently blatant, not even attempting to seek the consent and participation of the celebs involved. I'm really not sure how this is not criminal. I'm not a lawyer, but how is it possible that there are no grounds for a lawsuit here?
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I created a new thread so it can be discussed further there. Figured its best to keep this post related to Clint Eastwood
https://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/ari-lehman-leaf-pop...
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Not sure I agree with starting a new thread for this. Meaning if bad Eastwood's did make it into Pop Century product then there is a real question of motive or processes that could have allowed this to happen. It has always been my assumption that Pop Century dealt directly with all of the signers......now it appears not to be the case.
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I think I get what you mean. It still has a place here but still think Ari deserves its own post anyways so someone can find that information in the future. These posts sometimes show up on Google searches and Ari fans won't ever find it under Clint Eastwood
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Could the fact that he had to sign very small stickers contribute to this?
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