Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rich on October 17, 2013 at 8:37am

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding something, but I just can't really agree with or understand the notion that PSA and JSA fight for what is good in this hobby and are a major force in stopping forgeries from being sold.  They're not really actively intervening in the sale of forgeries.  I don't see anything resembling a downward trend in forgery sales on Ebay or anywhere else on the internet (in fact, I think most of us see it getting much, much worse).  You have auction sites like Ebid or ioffer where nearly everything is fake, even worse than Ebay's dismal percentage.   What are PSA and JSA really doing about it?  They sit back, collect cash and generally get the easy calls right.  I don't see how that cleans up the hobby significantly at all.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 17, 2013 at 8:49am

You are spot on Rich. Neither have any interest in fighting the forgery industry. If the hobby was dominated by advanced collectors both would be out of business. The product both offer has steadily gone downhill.

Name a popular celebrity and you'll find a forgery passed by one if not both of these companies available on EBAY.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Null on October 17, 2013 at 9:26am

As I said before, both PSA/DNA and JSA are not in this to "clean up the hobby", they are in it to make money.

I don't care if Jesus Christ certed a forgery, I'd still blog about it on here so that others are aware. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Ian Baldock on October 17, 2013 at 3:52pm

If the Lord certed it, you could rest assured it would be 100 percent authentic!  ( and yes I realize your just stressing a point).

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike T on October 17, 2013 at 9:51am

They are not in it to clean up the hobby, it is a by-product of them being in business.  Most high dollar auction houses use PSA and JSA, items that fail their certification do not make it to auction, transversely keeping forgeries off the legitimate market and saving collectors money on forgeries they would have otherwise purchased.

It is not their job to clean up the autograph hobby, and they have no say over how other businesses like eBay and eBid conduct themselves.  To expect them to have any effect on that is pretty far-fetched.

Like I stated in an earlier post, PSA alone has certed over 21 million items.  At an 80% success rate (purely speculative), that means there are over 4 million PSA certed forgeries out there.  You can pick a PSA item at random and there is a 20% chance of it being fake.  It shouldn't be a surprise when you find one.  However, that in no way correlates to "if you pay them, they will cert it".

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Mike T on October 17, 2013 at 10:39am

A celebrity that has signed many thousands of autographs throughout a 20+ year span of his/her career in a myriad of different situations is probably not going to be very accurate when asked "is this your signature?", especially when being presented with a good forgery.  IMO someone who has studied that celebrities signature through the years will be able to make a much more accurate call.

That said, I think celebrities can start making a big impact on the forgery market by simply selling their autograph at reasonable prices on their website or through their marketing agent.  It is the best way for a fan to get a 100% authentic signature, and with the ease in which it can be obtained, it significantly hurts the market for forging that autograph.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Steve Zarelli on October 17, 2013 at 10:10am

I don't think it accurate or fair to imply credible TPAs are happy fakes are overrunning the industry, they don't do a thing about them or it would somehow be better off without them.

Granted, TPAs would be out of business if there were zero forgeries. But how likely is that? There have been fakes since day one. On the other hand, if the industry is completely overrun with fakes to the point where people lose confidence in mass numbers, that will hurt the TPAs as well. A healthy hobby helps everyone.

And quite candidly, you guys have no idea what they do behind the scenes to share information and rebuff known forgers. No idea.

They certainly are not perfect and any business entity can always improve. But if you want to imagine what the entire hobby might look like without them, go to Craigslist, Always At Auction or Coaches Corner. What is now relegated to dark corners would be the mainstream. Just my opinion.

In full disclosure, I am a consultant for JSA.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Randy on October 17, 2013 at 12:04pm

Well said Mr. Zipper. At least one member of this forum is in total agreement with you.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rich on October 17, 2013 at 12:09pm

"And quite candidly, you guys have no idea what they do behind the scenes to share information and rebuff known forgers. No idea."

I agree.  Please share this info, since we rarely see tangible or quantifiable results from our perspective.

Look, here's my thing.  When I buy an autograph, I want very little to no doubt about the authenticity, or else I'm not that interested.  That's why I don't really collect too agressively anymore and keep my focus narrowed to celebs, atheletes and musicians that I'm an especially big fan of.  For a celeb, would I make a purchase based solely on a PSA or JSA sticker?  Absolutely not.  If I was marginal on my knowledge of their signature but still wanted an item, I would go to a top notch in person collector, like Gary Harvey, Jason Thanos, or ebayers like thefriendlystranger or skylinesignatures (and there are many more).  For a sports item, I'd go to Waukesha Sportscards or Legends of the Field (for Packers items), or Steiner, TriStar, Schwartz, Radtke or an athlete's own company for anything else.  There are sports signings galore, and it's really, really easy to get modern sports stars from a verfified, legitimate source with virtually no concerns about authenticity.   Would these safe avenues cease to exist if PSA and JSA weren't around?  I doubt it.

At best, the PSA and JSA authentication stickers suggest to me, "Yeah, maybe."  That's not the peace of mind I'm looking for. 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Null on October 17, 2013 at 12:40pm

My only point in this whole convo is that if PSA/DNA or JSA makes a mistake, it is 100% OK to post it on this site. In fact, I think it's BETTER for the hobby that those mistakes are exposed so that we can learn from them, and to show people that no one is perfect, so do your own research. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rich on October 17, 2013 at 12:45pm

Yep, I agree.  I'm not trying to start a feud over PSA and JSA.  I still do generally consider them the "good guys," but I'm not thrilled with the size of the companies or some of the resulting practices and habits.  And I don't want to be told that I have to give them only the utmost respect and that it's taboo to criticize them. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Randy on October 17, 2013 at 4:45pm

The vast majority of collectors have absolutely no desire to study autographs themselves. They want to purchase an autograph to stick on the wall and brag about to their friends.  

JSA and PSA/DNA give them the absolute best opportunity to get an authentic one in today's market.

Sure, there is a slight chance they get a bad one but the opinions of JSA and PSA/DNA come from many years of experience and a plethora of authentic exemplars which the novice collector will never have.

There is no way they can study autographs on their own and have a better chance to get an authentic one.

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• Next ›
• Page