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PSA/DNA Certified Items - Right or Wrong

Not being a dealer or auctioneer I am perfectly suited to referee this discussion if need be. This section is mostly for Items that PSA/DNA has certified that in an opinion of authenticators has missed the mark (AND NOT as far as they know been corrected) along with any other items of significance.

In some cases the certification provided might be a simple rejection while in other cases it's certifying it as authentic when it may be far from it.

The thread is not about the good, the bad or ugly of 3rd parties as there is already an excellent thread in the forum on this started by R&R's Bobby Livington that everyone should follow. That thread alone has produced three disccusions on Farrah Fawcett, Elvis, and now this.

Hopefully, AM members will follow this thread (I am sure the fraudsters & propaganda machines will) and point others to it - Perhaps, the owners of the item that is cited. Those owners can then deal with the authentication firm or sellers and report back their journey.

Since I don't expect the PSA/DNAs of the world to come online and defend/refute (althugh the have an open invitation) the postings then be advised this is not a thread to speculate, accuse, or otherwise besmirch what is or what isn't being done.

So 'nuff said and on with the items. To keep discussions focused and contained - Each Item contributors need to stay in the realm of that item so commentary is not all over the place.

remember if you post an item denote the PSA/DNA number on their sticker... One, if they choose can also validate the item's number on the PSA/DNAs database to see if it is in fact a product of PSA/DNA as we have heard that the fraudsters are/have created bogus ones and report your findings here.

Tags: certification, certifications, errors, forgeries, psa, psa/dna

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Permalink Reply by Bill Panagopulos on December 5, 2010 at 6:47am

My thoughts: this website doesn't have enough bandwidth to cover all the bad material they have passed as "authentic".

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 5, 2010 at 7:39am

funny Mr. Bill, many studies of the dung beetle and what they do to clean up the environment but that would be off topic....

so we can all start with a recent one... and let Cyrkin worry on bandwidth

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 7, 2010 at 2:18am

Travis, what's up???? U had 4 entries or 1 entry edited 3 times and deleted all of them. Not like you to remove interesting information.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 10, 2010 at 11:07am

Don't worry, we have plenty of bandwidth to show all the bad material. But buying enough bandwidth to show all the material they authenticated correctly would require mortgaging the farm.

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 5, 2010 at 9:55am

So I had hoped that Travis would have started one but before we receive anymore insightfull items on environment cleaning creatures perhaps we can clean-up one of the mistakes... Travis on a different thread has been more than outspoken in the boxing arena so if you are the owner of either one of these especially the 2nd one can you provide any further insight...or as In Bueller's Day off, anyone, anyone?

The First Item is a Correctly assessd in Travis' opinion while the 2nd one is an incorrectly "stickerd" chavez that ought to be Chuvalo.

Both items have stickers that are only 87 items apart, the good Chuvalo is K67412 and the Chuvalo they called a Julio Chavez is k67499.

and the following incorrectly PSA/DNA certified signature of Julio Chavez when it is a George Chuvalo as provided by Mark Ogren, in his opinion; "PSA thinks heavyweight contender George Chuvalo is Julio Cesar Chavez (K67499). Was this even a close miss? I guess I can see a "J", "C" and "Z" in there somewhere?"

so if you own the 1st one you are ok but if you own the 2nd one and/or are about to buy it - u could have an issue.

The verification information from PSA/DNA reads as follows;
Item: Cut
Primary Subject: JULIO CESAR CHAVEZ
Authentication Date: 09/28/2010
Result/Grade: Authentic

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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on December 5, 2010 at 10:05pm

I am not sticking up for psa . But this isnt that big of an issue if the signature is real . Ive had items put into the system wrong a few times. All I had to do was send them an email with the scan of the number they got wrong and they fixed it. Its human error. If it was a total fake autogrpah , then I can see your point. Im sure the person who looked at it knew it was Chuvalo , but once they put it in the system it was put it wrong.

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 6, 2010 at 5:27am

Tony - that is one of the items that I intended to follow-up to test how their service works. The reason for the good one was simply a matter of comparision and contrast. I would also like to think that when I test service's reaction I will also test out their process on rectifying error calls they have made.

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Permalink Reply by DB on December 5, 2010 at 10:51am

The following item has a twist to it; Mark Ogren who seems to specialize in boxing items and has been impressive with his knowledge was shocked when he received a rejection on his Robert Fitzsimmons (below);

there is no timeline provided on the above however Mark would go on to point out several that were sold by a major auction, in his opinion, were signed by his wife and/or manager (with exemplars). Since no PSA/DNA certs were depicted I have not added them here at this time but if they are - Mark do add them.

Fundamentally, the problem that exists here is they made a wrong call and don't seem willing to undue it which creates a major league problem for all collectors especially in the face of solid empirical evidence to the contrary.

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Permalink Reply by Bobby Livingston on December 5, 2010 at 4:47pm

Pre-certified by PSA/DNA. Real or fake?

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Permalink Reply by Bobby Livingston on December 5, 2010 at 4:53pm

Travis,

Here is an Ali signed boxing glove authenticated by Bob Eaton and Bill White at RR Auction. We then sent the scan along to PSA for an unbiased opinion. What do you think?

BL