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Authenticity is Everything
PSA/DNA Certified Items - Right or Wrong
Not being a dealer or auctioneer I am perfectly suited to referee this discussion if need be. This section is mostly for Items that PSA/DNA has certified that in an opinion of authenticators has missed the mark (AND NOT as far as they know been corrected) along with any other items of significance.
In some cases the certification provided might be a simple rejection while in other cases it's certifying it as authentic when it may be far from it.
The thread is not about the good, the bad or ugly of 3rd parties as there is already an excellent thread in the forum on this started by R&R's Bobby Livington that everyone should follow. That thread alone has produced three disccusions on Farrah Fawcett, Elvis, and now this.
Hopefully, AM members will follow this thread (I am sure the fraudsters & propaganda machines will) and point others to it - Perhaps, the owners of the item that is cited. Those owners can then deal with the authentication firm or sellers and report back their journey.
Since I don't expect the PSA/DNAs of the world to come online and defend/refute (althugh the have an open invitation) the postings then be advised this is not a thread to speculate, accuse, or otherwise besmirch what is or what isn't being done.
So 'nuff said and on with the items. To keep discussions focused and contained - Each Item contributors need to stay in the realm of that item so commentary is not all over the place.
remember if you post an item denote the PSA/DNA number on their sticker... One, if they choose can also validate the item's number on the PSA/DNAs database to see if it is in fact a product of PSA/DNA as we have heard that the fraudsters are/have created bogus ones and report your findings here.
Tags: certification, certifications, errors, forgeries, psa, psa/dna
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by john reznikoff on
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DB,
I have it in my mind to post 999 irrefutable examples of psa or jsa certs for every mistake Travis illustrates. That is probably an accurate # but I just don't want to put in the time. Add to that another 1000 forgeries that have failed authentication and been prevented from entering the market and then you get an accurate picture.
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Permalink Reply by DB on
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Hi Rez - & Happy Holidays to All out here in Blog Land.
that was exactly my point and I don't blame you for not wanting to put that LOE in as well. The main issue as I see it has been their service and I still have qualms with things like "pre-certs" and multiple signed items.
and after reading all these threads and posts some of the places I have acquired items from have given me pause for concern. Makes me want to stop buying. I don't care about the backbiting that goes on or if someone is a member of IADA or not so long as people are forthright, honest and not taking items out of context or putting a spin on it to serve whatever purpose they may have.
then we have the "thru the mail thread"... how many of those are authentic? I tell ya, this hobby is a mess and how some of you keep pushing the rock up the hill to ferret out the snakes is beyond me as it is the equivalent of postting 999 authentic items to the power of 10.
and as we established long ago - we ain't gonna be 100% accurate but it's what happens after the error is discovered and that is where places like PSA/DNA have along way to go. Until then, there is going to be alot of naysayers and rightfully so.
and I couldn't help but notice Mr. Bill is giving you 40% to my paltry 15%. Beware of greeks giving presents ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Anthony Bautista on
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Autograph world is one of the best places to get authentic autographs . I wouldn't think those guys are trying to hide anything . I know about 5-6 people they buy off out here in Los angeles . I think they keep the names of those people anonymous is because other dealers will try and come and low ball prices.
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Anthony - I have been with AW for well over ten years and it wasn't until recently this buying practice emereged. when someone says, regardless of whom, they are "employees" then they are or they aren't. AW's prices are fairly reasonable as well as their signature pieces (well maybe +/-) but when I see multi-signed items such as the Star Trek ones I start to wonder about the provenance. Doesn't make Bardwell or Bob bad people, but after having read enough of these blogs it is making me much more skeptical and cautious and gunshy of having just the "owners" if you will provide the authentication opinion esepcially where they cross so many categories.
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Travis has made very valid points about 3rd party authenticators . I'm sure he is a stand up dealer. He has a totally different reason for not accepting third party authentication than the person who was selling the rat pack. Third party authentication has built this into the minds of collectors and it isn't always neccasirily true .
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Re: "Travis has made very valid points about 3rd party authenticators . I'm sure he is a stand up dealer. He has a totally different reason for not accepting third party authentication than the person who was selling the rat pack. Third party authentication has built this into the minds of collectors and it isn't always neccasirily true
But, in the end it still sounds like someone trying to hide something..... NOT allowing any check and balance OBJECTIVE opinion. OF COURSE many dealers do NOT want to have their autographs "checked" by an independent source , because they would be on the Hot Seat for actually HONORING their refund policy , then Hiding behind the Responsibility Eliminator "Oh I don’t recognize 3rd party authentication".I spends thousands a year on autographs and if a dealer responds as you have above, you lost my business forever, Because a big Red Flag of Suspicion goes up.
I also sell as much every year and I can tell you I get countless requests that the autograph is PSA'd or JSA'd . Can you imagine HOW it would sound if I start “badmouthing” the service they request? I am wondering what the Anti-PSA dealers are telling THEIR customers requesting the same? Unless you are totally oblivious, the impression you would make on the customer is quite disastrous. I am sure this is not such a big problem with a $10 Loni Anderson but a $5000 Babe Ruth or$15,000 Marilyn Monroe? Well, in the end ignorance is bliss. And Caveat Emptor can be a painful lifelong lesson.I think this is becoming a rather silly argument.
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Other dealers that is probably the case. But I dont think Travis is hiding anything . He is just trying to get his point across that the 3rd party authentications arent as reliable as we all think. BTW I am a JSA authorized dealer . Everything I sell comes authenticated by Jsa. I dont always agree with what Travis has to say but I would have no problem buying something from him and in the end knowing it would be 100% authentic.
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I am sure Travis is an honest experienced dealer. But, the impression still exists for anyone that refuses any higher authority to authenticate Travis, MY or any dealers autographs. Some dealers requite two approved authentications since one service can make a mistake (or have a subjective bias for whatever reason). But then again that gets expensive...so no solution on the horizon. But I am sure someone a lot smarter than I was come up with a fix for this problem.
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Now here is the REAL questionable side of the 3rd party debate. I have seem countless , in my opinion BAD autographs, by the below dealer who always seems to have GAI for his items. Now if you are a collector of OZ autographs (correct me if I'm wrong) but this looks like a no brainer BAD Margaret Hamilton. He had same suspect Jack Haley and Ray Bolger a month or so ago:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Margaret-Hamilton-Wizard-Oz-SIGNED-8x10-Photo-G...
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like some of us we all go overboard. Many of travis' original points are well founded especially with their service and taking responsibility to fix an error when it becomes identified. Perhaps they do, but there seems to be no clear continued evidence.
just in case here is the wizard of oz picture as these things seem to disappear faster than a speeding bullet
but what I don't get is the following and if GAI is such an issue as has been noted here how in the hell can ebay continue with it's promotion?
; Margaret Hamilton The wicked witch of the Wizard of Oz. GV: 555378
In Addition to our COA you will also recieve a COA from GLOBAL, one of Ebays approved 3rd party Authenticators
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And, we can all rest assured since he is a "Court Appointed Expert"...OH Boy! that makes me feel better....;} It seems like now whenever you see Forensic Expert or Court Appointed in a title or description you can almost bet with about a 99% certainty it will be a fake. Quite an ironic tale......
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on
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Kevin Martin is supposedly the publisher of the upcoming new print magazine on autographs.
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