Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by roger epperson on August 16, 2012 at 5:25am

Thanks Jason,

Here's the problem I have with the whole thing.  If the board members of AFTAL can't tell the difference between Arian's MJ's and authentic ones then they are doing the collectors no good.  This is a farce and they all have something to lose if they deemed them fake.  Now Steve and I are threatened about some AA or ANL BS that is going to be posted about us at some show?  Gary contacted me I didn't contact him, for my opinion.  Now when I give my opinion I'm going to get threats?  This is AFTAL.

I am still a couple days behind getting caught up but when I get a minute I will post and show you readers why these Adrian MJ's are not authentic.  It's very easy and simple to point out yet AFTAL board members (who have an iron in the fire) can't see it.  I will post it soon.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on August 16, 2012 at 5:36am

Thanks Roger.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on August 16, 2012 at 5:28am

Once again Jason thank you so much for bringing your point of view to this forum.  This is very good to hear.  You are echoing what many people including Steve have already said about Garry.  From what I have heard he sounds like he is one of the good guys over there.  Let's hope that the findings of AFTAL are as legitimate as they claim since even as you have observed they are not perfect...yet.

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 16, 2012 at 6:01am

Mike + Roger thanks for the civil replies . I am not a board member I am
Just a member that fights like you said the cause and tries to voice the sadness of others .
But what worries me is that by saying Aftal this Aftal that am been thrown in the frying pan Inc some other descent people . I don't know all the Aftal dealers but I know a handful and there is a
Few good people who have put a lot of work in the community , I hope you guys understand what I mean .
Imagine if I went on another forum and said that this forum and it's people are clueless or bad people etc just because 1 person could be .

We all want what's fair but I just feel that it will be nice not to go to people throats and the experts that do know how to prove their point be allowed to voice their opinion in a respectful way so we could all undestand .
This debates have a habit of bringing over the haters and the keyboard warriors and in the ed
Things go shambles .

Also I am Aftal and I have not threatened you guys to be
Honest i don't know you guys well enough but I like the fact I see your names it helps a lot as I feel
I am talking to a real person . It is a sad industry that we are in with more enemies than friends and at times we loose ourselfs and our free time to help others and get attacked on top .

I was invited here to help with some autographs I specialise in and I decide to be part of this community but I hope we can all try to do good as this is the main aim here . I always tell people to open up posts when
Wanting to buy something get a 2nd and 3rd opinion on a item it dont cost or hurt to ask , I even ask clients to ask even
About items am selling as I know since I got them myself i fear nothing , we have to be open to been challenged but it has to be done in a civil manner .

Thanks guys Jason Thanos

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 16, 2012 at 7:17am

Jason, you should read that acaf thread posted by mick earlier - Very Telling.  Makes some of the debates here look tame.  On one hand you have a "founder" and Board Member demonizing a source of intormation but would now be used by the AFTAL Organization  in an attempt to discredit.  

I found a couple of points (amongst many relevant);  On Behalf of Don Davies AFTAL Board Mbr and Chairman (in part) ...but AFTAL as an organisation will not be drawn into personal arguments concerning dealers...   Didn't I just see some posts earlier on this thread from AFTAL Organization?

And it all started from someone questioning amongst other things the authenticity of a Queen item by an Aftal Dealer who responded with the implication that it was from R&R and REAL. Although had someone not pushed on it the information that the item had not been sold nor opined on by REAL may have never surfaced.  Rather the dealer (et all) had made a comparision to other like Queen albums sold by R&R and opined on by REAL and declared it authentic based on that comparison.  The end result being that the call made as to the item being authentic appeared incorrect.

Appears there is an issue with individuals having signficant difficulties separating themselves from acting as a Dealer, Authenticator, or Board Member. 

It would also seem to me from reading this "civil discussion" that some could indeed be holding grudges.  There is way too much defensive posturing that goes on in this space and it affects everyone.

Thanks Mick for posting it.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on August 16, 2012 at 8:02am

Thank you for clarifying what my greatest concern has been all along.  Why are individuals allowed to pick and choose which of the three hats to wear?  As dealers they should know at least something about the authenticity of the items that they are selling and should certainly not be involved in any official capacity as a board member of the very organization that is determining whether or not their items are authentic or not.  Just my opinion of course.

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Permalink Reply by richard james-scott easten on August 16, 2012 at 7:18am

hi guys,

I'd like firstly to say hi!!! i'm Richard,acaf mod (known to my friends as milly),I know nothing about m.jackson....just to confirm jasons c.v. to any are a bit wary,he's one of the best and speaks wisdom,garbled with greek sometimes ;0)

this is a great community and loads of things ive learnt...as I love autographs I like to learn something new everyday,my first graph was ali in person in 1977 here in the uk

every dealer will probably get stung at one point,how its handled is most important,garry,whom ive never met (i'm not aftal) saved my bacon many moons ago when i listed a norman wisdom sec.... he didnt have to...big heart...thats my personal opinion.

finally,I must apologise for the closing ceremony at the olympics,george michael miming,the appearance of one direction,miming,the spice girls miming,annie lennox miming....for me beady eye,live was ok...and the who (live) nailed it.I hope her majesty didnt go as Iron Maiden werent asked (or sabbath,or purple or u2) and I dont know why,if you think one direction is typical of british culture I dont blame anyone for being confused.

 

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Permalink Reply by DB on August 16, 2012 at 7:30am

Hi Milly - I do understand though why the Queen took a rain check and sent Prince Harry.  Here in the USA there was considerable issue as the NBC network cut out the WHO by cutting away.  I'm not sure how they could do a live performance whizzing around in cars, flattops, and busses.  Except perhaps for russell brand's version of the Walrus it was certainly a music affair and I'm sure there were many here also singing along to "always look on the bright side of life".

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Permalink Reply by richard james-scott easten on August 16, 2012 at 7:41am

thats only fair to be honest,years ago when we had the britannia music awards the tv guys cut off rick astley during a song so the who could perform,swings and roundabouts

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Permalink Reply by richard james-scott easten on August 16, 2012 at 7:44am

by the way,the profile photo is me and paradise lost,the best band in the world

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Permalink Reply by Jason Thanos on August 16, 2012 at 7:35am

Richard thanks not expected but thank you .
DB only reason I came on here is just to say if somehow the debate can be seen in 2 topics .
I would find it sad to turnish someone s reputation (Gary) over this , if he was a forger or known for selling 100s of fakes etc I would say let him burn , but to be fair he is not that kind he actually runs courses across the UK to try and help new people from getting burned . I believe he did a small guide book on ali etc .

From what I read the items were taken down and if anyone wanted a
Refund am sure he would also as this are the rules we tell our clients we believe in .
So really I don't find that he has done much bad .

Look am gonna stop now because I don't want to come across as some one
Who is trying to favour some one . I just wanted to share what I know about this matter .

Thanks Jason Thanos

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Permalink Reply by JXE on August 16, 2012 at 8:22am

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of hearing about how Gary testifies in court against his competition and is on TV, when this is all about numerous high profile fakes in his inventory. Now, multiple experts who were just trying to help him are receiving threats from the very board he sits on. Real nice. I guess it doesn't have to be authentic, it just has to come from a "nice, good, AFTAL" dealer.

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