Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 31, 2012 at 12:17pm

I'm not doubting that Garry is a good guy. He has people I trust vouching for him. But he is a dealer and an authenticator. If he has done so much work for the industry I don't see why he let AFTAL decide for him. Does he openly state these are fake and offer the customers their money back? Not sure I've seen that. I would think the customer and hobby should come first.

I've never bought an MJ. Way out of my price range. I could only imagine purchasing one from a very trusted source then have it questioned without real closure on it. Big part of why I won't deal with a dealer belonging to AFTAL or located in the UK. Nothing against them personally. I've seen Jason's stuff. He posts here. Very nice. I think all this secrecy hurts good dealers like him who stand in the rain for hours to ensure authentic autographs.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 12:28pm

Rick

Can I ask you this ?

Do you beleive only fake autographs generate from the UK ?

Are you stating there are no forgers in America ?

Im not supporting AFTAL in anyway, I have my problems with them too and its personal

But to call all UK dealers is wrong.

If you want to buy from only American dealers thats your choice but let me assure you that many US dealers trade with us here in UK and you may end up owning items that have been collectd in the UK

Please clarify your statement about the Uk  dealers

As for your other points raised Garry is a good guy who has been sent up S*** Creek without a paddle

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 31, 2012 at 1:08pm

Did I say that there are no forgers in America or that all dealers in the UK sell forgeries? I said neither of those. Your digging deep. I actually do think there are a few solid dealers in the UK.

I don't like AFTAL. That simple. I just don't buy from dealers who advertise it even if I think they are one of the solid ones. Only thing I can do to show my distaste for it. Aafes the post exchange supports a company that peddles forgeries. I refuse to shop there. I buy my uniforms off post. Aafes will never get another dime from me. Not will I buy from companies that pay Aafes. I havent bought a single item from them in a couple years. My money so I can spend it how I want. My money alone hurts nobody....but many people refusing to do business with places or from businesses under an organization can speak volumes. Just my dorky way of boycotting I guess.

As for UK dealers I have nothing personal with them. Just think if I ever had to get my money back it would be easier to do dealing here. If I were in the UK my thinking would be reversed.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 1:55pm

Well u did imply that UK dealers are generating the forgeries and you cant trust a UK based Dealer

Do you not think im disgusted with what Ive seen on here ?

Ive lost 2 friends who are UK based because I made a comment on here trying to resolve the question of whats real and what is not

I dont have a problem with who you like and who you dont, but please dont cast aspirtions that all UK dealers are bad

I assure you if I have something identified as fake by a Recognised Authenticator I would not in any way try to sell it on

I would return to my source and advise them there was a problem

I have no problem buying from anyone as long as the price is right and Im positive the item is Authentic, US / UK or Russian

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 31, 2012 at 2:34pm

Gary,

 Uh no I never did imply that. Your overly defensive and convincing yourself of something that isn't true. Let me state again....I never implied a single time that UK dealers are generating forgeries. I have not made mention of the origins of a single forgery in this entire thread. Kind of hard to imply or allude to the generating of a forgery when I've never even commented on who forged it or where it was forged. You stated that I also implied that no forgeries go on in the US. Yeah right! Where did I state or imply that? I've only talked about selling a forgery and authenticating. I posed the question that how can Garry be so easily fooled by offering forged items for sale yet possess the skills necessary to qualify as an authenticator? Not everyones perfect. I can see being fooled by very rare signatures with very few exemplars. Seems he is being fooled by big dollar common signatures. I would be hard pressed to admit that it doesn't have me wondering.....HMMMMM!

  You posed questions to me already once assuming this already because I dont like AFTAL and becasuse I choose not to buy from a dealer that belongs to the group. My preference. I didn't even say all dealers under AFTAL sell forgeries. I said the opposite. There a couple dealers in the UK that I think are solid. I did state that belonging to the group drives my business away and it does. I'm going out on a limb and assuming membership isn't free. I feel if I bought from a dealer under the AFTAL banner then in some small way I am supporting it. Not sure I can get any clearer about it.

   If you still assume I alluded to this or I implied that... well.....nothing I can do about that.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 31, 2012 at 3:02pm

I never took ANY statement made attacking U.K. Dealers as a whole. In fact, I read these statements as true concern that a select group of a "Holy" few who are honest to God putting their thumbs down on the dealers who "dare" to stand on their own.

In my opinion, the powers that be in the AFTAL are doing what they can to control these honest dealers and actually, use these dealers who are doing the right thing to give credibility to their "boys club". To be honest, they have a need for these honest dealers more than ever thanks to this MJ (and others ) debacle.

Trust me, serious collectors appreciate and will gladly buy from them. I have done so and I know others have too.

I think it's a serious and REAL concern that these immature "club leaders" are trying to control what any collector and/or dealer would say.

Screw that!

Permalink Reply by Gary Harvey on October 31, 2012 at 2:50pm

Rick

Ok I dont want to argue with you, its not worth it as whats going on really doesnt effect us.

I apologise for going off on one, Im not defending AFTAL they can defend themselves

I have been invite numerous occasions to join them and there society, I chose not too

My reasons are personal, but in hindsight it looks like i was correct with my opinions and reasons not to spend $150 approx to join

I will defend the General Uk Dealer Collectors especially my friends, we like Jason stand outside hotels in the rain / sleet and snow waiting for a signature.

We do not all fake, we try our best to keep people happy

Hope you understand

Best wishes

Gary

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on October 31, 2012 at 2:58pm

I hear you and I understand your points.

Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 30, 2012 at 12:07pm

No Steve,  It's a valid question that when asked openly by members here was turned into an attack on you, Epperson, and others here.  I'm appalled that other people aren't still asking for his ( Gary King's ) personal thoughts on the MJ signatures in question. 

Did he complete his review? if so, Does he still think they are good.  If he does, were these examples used in any court cases against other dealers.  Unless I'm mistaken, the general thought here is that the MJ autographs aren't real...correct?

The whole situation and the "club's "findings" ( which were never clarified outside of it's attacks on people who asked questions ) is appalling and quite telling.

To me, there are too many questions left un-answered about the material in question.  I personally was just curious about the use of the questioned items as examples for the prosecution.

I don't blindly kiss the rear of such people. Nor do I apologize for not doing it.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 31, 2012 at 11:57am

Brandon,

What was appalling was how you accused Garry of malicious behavior and criminal acts, with not one iota of evidence...or even any knowledge of the roles he served in the cases he's been involved in. You just threw everything you could at the wall to see what would stick. I thought you were better than that. And the way you ridiculed the UK culture is an example of why so many other countries have such nasty things to say about Americans.

As far as I know, Garry King does not believe the Michael Jacksons are genuine. 

I am also appalled with the way AFTAL has handled this matter. King is the only board member who seems to give a damn about collectors...or other AFTAL members. There are many excellent members, but they are becoming collateral damage thanks to some powerful AFTAL members. As DB pointed out about a week ago, the AFTAL Code of Conduct seems to be for the common folk.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Mysinger on October 31, 2012 at 12:23pm

Asking a question is not accusing anything.  I asked "DID HE" I didn't state " HE DID "  There is a difference.

IF ( Do I need to highlight and underline that word?? ) he did use the items as authentic examples in such cases, then he did so based on his opinion at the time...which was that they were authentic ( which was obvious since he was selling and had sold the same signature examples ). If so, that opinion would have to be amended. Amending the opinion COULD have reversing affects on any court decisions.

It's a simple question that I have asked before. It is infact a valid one at that. It's so valid and obvious that I'm surprised that YOU didn't ask it.

I would hope that people are a little stronger boned than you give them credit for. If not, then it shows what is wrong with the world and my reply would be... WHAAAAA!!! That's what they get for having soft feelings.

I don't discount all U.K. culture. I am a HUGE fan of James Bond, Dr. Who,  and Benny Hill afterall.

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Mike Shepherd on October 31, 2012 at 1:08pm

Don't forget Sir Alec Guinness.

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