Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Peter Lougheed on August 14, 2012 at 8:16pm

It appears that two things are going on:

1. There is no proof, and they know it. If this is the case, they will go silent and wait for the storm to pass over.

2. They now realize they have a major problem..i.e., they have seen the tip of the iceberg and are afraid to look under the water. If this is the case, I still believe we won't hear much more from anyone on the other side of the pond.

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Permalink Reply by Travis Christenberry on August 14, 2012 at 8:47pm

Well look, they already said that we won't be hearing from them anymore. And they are saying that if we want to see the video and picture proof we will have to go to the Autografica show at the NEC Birmingham UK. I mean, just think about that. What in the world is going on???? So basically, that's it. We apparently won't be hearing anything else from them at all.

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Permalink Reply by Peter Lougheed on August 14, 2012 at 8:52pm

It appears that you are correct, Travis. I guess, in this case, silence will be the "smoking gun". Of course, they are free at any time to respond with all the proof they have. We're all waiting for it.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 14, 2012 at 9:18pm

I agree...it stinks to high heaven.

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Permalink Reply by Geoff LaVeine on August 14, 2012 at 9:05pm

I don't think you are wrong. 

And Steve please don't suspend me for saying that.  It's just my opinion.   Obviously without proof, we all have a right to draw our own conclusions.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 14, 2012 at 9:16pm

Funny...it takes a lot to get suspended here. Don't worry.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 14, 2012 at 9:12pm

He's probably way to busy testifying in a UK court about the forgeries being sold by his competitors. Hopefully nobody was put in jail over his testimony. Would be like jailing somebody over the expert forensic testimony of Chris Morales or Drew Max............oh wait, they would have to actually deem something a forgery for that to happen.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 14, 2012 at 9:07pm

I was shocked that AFTAL decided the Michael Jacksons from Adrian were genuine. That's 180-degrees from where things were headed last week. But AFTAL maintains that they have overwhelming evidence that the MJs are real, including video and photo proof, so if any members here attend Autographica in October, they can examine the proof and tell us about it. AFTAL's not going to post any of it online.

I trust and respect Garry King and most of the AFTAL members I know—Garry's expert testimony has helped convict several forgery sellers in the UK, probably more than any other expert. And we've worked together on a few forgery issues in the last year or so. So if you have negative feelings about AFTAL's decision, like many here seem to, including me, please don't paint every AFTAL member with the same brush. 

Frankly, I'm not happy how we treated Garry. Pointing out pieces that concern you in someone's inventory is absolutely fine, but beating him up over a few pieces out of perhaps 2,000 isn't, especially when he's willing to reconsider them. Garry is slow and methodical and looks at every possibility. That's how you have to be when you're authenticating for court and a good way to authenticate period. When he said MJ's drug use would need to be considered because it might have affected his signature, that's because it's something he has to consider when he's authenticating for court.

The real blame falls on me for not moderating better. Anything can be discussed...we just have to be careful not to cause harm to those who don't deserve it. I could have handled this better without stifling the conversation.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 14, 2012 at 9:38pm

Steve,

  I understand what you say here. But considering the signature based on possible drug use seems a little silly. First you'd need photo or video of him signing and another showing him consuming drugs. We going to put asteriks next to MJ on dope autographs? Sounds like a ploy to throw off questions to me. Lots of folks are on drugs. Not sure how you can determine drug use by looking at signatures. Considering the possibilities next they'll say he had a different signature depending on the particular drug he was on.

HMMMM....looks like an authentic MJ with 1,000mg of Oxycotin in his system. By the odd shape of the J it looks like he popped the pills between 3-4 hours ago and coming down hard on a 2 day binge.

Like I said it sounds like justification to peddle fakes to me. Whatever it takes I guess. He purchased them so he going to get his money back......they have Craigslist in the UK?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 14, 2012 at 9:48pm

Rick,

I haven't read through this in days. Did he say somewhere the MJs were good or did he say those were things he needed to consider. When we talked last week Garry seemed convinced the MJs were fake.

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Permalink Reply by Rick Meyer on August 14, 2012 at 10:02pm

I took the drug use consideration from your post.

I haven't seen him say they were one way or the other. Just that he's looking into it and BTW watching a great Olympics.

 I just want to see the rock solid proof they have. Whoever sold them to Garry I'm sure would need to provide it. I'd be demanding it. Looks like Garry is a major player. Autograph source looks to lose a lot if he pulls out of business with them. He cant get it and post the video's?

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 14, 2012 at 10:20pm

The "rock solid" proof will make its appearance at Autographica in October. I'm curious to see it, too.

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