Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on October 17, 2009 at 1:34pm

I agree that the more qualified the expert is in a genre the better, but while you're generous enough to authenticate for free, you can't take price out of the equation if the business depends on the revenue. Just like we can't give away the magazine to help educate collectors.

Experts need to be compensated for their services, and since most autographs are worth more authenticated by reputable authenticators, their increased value often makes of for the cost, or more.

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Permalink Reply by DB on January 25, 2010 at 1:02am

Let's face it, if you don't get the article in person you at risk. Everyone of the named places or opinionators listed have and will contine to screw up. UACC has it's wall of shame which at least they publish but how much of that memoribillia is already floating around. "Reputable" mall sellers have their problems as to where do they buy their stuff...as they certainly don't get it in person more often than not. Unfortunately, for the collecting industry it has turned into a billion dollar business... PSA last year did over 100,000 pieces. It's become big business and there are so many fools who buy this stuff as an investment. It's a hobby!!

I concur that their out to be "guilds" of places and subject areas. If I ever had a question on Space Items, I head for collectSpace site. There have been times where even some of the astronaut members have questioned their own merchandise.

Then you have the "timing issue"

Look at coache's corner (a different thread on Steve's blog) where they are selling very suspect articles opined on by Morales but currently seem to have a legit Ruth ball that has topped 9k.

I just recently questioned an Ebay item on Tom Brady. Since I have a number of signatures of his (in person or from Tri-Star where he had an exclusive) I think I know his signature. The mini-helmet would sell for $56.00 (a bargain you say) but here was that seller's response who was also selling card lots, " will check with my buddy it was one of his friends does the coa but i know its real i got it myself at the superbowl in 07 as he was leaving the marriot to get on the bus as they were leaving for one of the practices and he was walking as he was signing it horsies123". It dose have some similarities and if someone were walking and signing then perhaps (ever see a reall Magic Johnson or a Manny Ramirez signature? and they are usually seated).

Geez. I never did get an answer from Big Rays Sports Cards on the site of the authenticating COA (allstar authenticated, a divsion of Sports Inc.). It may have in fact been legit but timing is everything and when someones says "his buddy" just keep walking.

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Hauser on October 17, 2009 at 5:20pm

Regarding an eBay dealer you suspect of fraud:
+ Is it a private auction with the bidders identities hidden?
+ Do they have a low number of sales or negative feedback?
+ Have they sold the exact same item before when you check their prior sales?
+ Do they have a "no refund" policy?
+ Is the item picture blurred, cut off or hard to view in some way?
+ Do they ignore inquiries?
+ Do they not offer any COA, but instead state they personally obtain every autograph?
These are just a few of the warning signs to stay away and try another eBay seller.

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Permalink Reply by michael bartow on November 16, 2009 at 7:30am

Some good points Jeff and believe me I do offer refunds on any item I sell on ebay which gives the buyer the satisfaction if you think what I'm selling is BS then hey send it back and I will go out and have it authenticated by a third party just to prove not fake. Also a photo of the item being signed helps a bit. Usually I'm able to get a photo with the Nascar driver at their Merch hauler holding the piece in question its a bit harder for somebody to say oh that's fake. One thing though I don't offer some COA that you talk about. Why because some people offer some piece of paper that means nothing. I could go out and get some fancy letter head and do the same thing but I don't do it. I let a photo be my authenticator. I know others may have a problem with it but hey I guess I can't please everybody.

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on November 10, 2009 at 2:18pm

For me, and in my opinion, I don't feel comfortable saying something is or isn't real, publicily. I will say it is or is not consistent with signatures that I have obtained in person and can provide examples of from my collection. The buyer can decide for themselves. But that is just my opinion. That is why I really can appreciate and respect the opinions of those collectors and experts that I consider the "DEAN's" of autograph collectability. (I do offer free examples of any artist's signature from my collection). My reasoning, is I do have some pretty cruddy/inconsistant signatures from Springsteen, Henley, Clapton, Jagger, Page and a few others that are pretty junkie, however, due to certain factors (usually security and/or alcohol) these signatures are very much real.
Stephen Duncan
www.rockandrollcollection.com

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Permalink Reply by Stephen Duncan on November 10, 2009 at 2:53pm

Further, I concur with any opinion Roger Epperson has as being 999.99% as good as gold!!!
Stephen Duncan

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Permalink Reply by Jeffrey Hauser on December 13, 2009 at 9:08am

May I refer you to the latest posting titled: ROGER EPPERSON LETTERS OF AUTHENTICITY NO LONGER EXCEPTED!! on the Rock, Blues forum? Enough said.

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Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 13, 2009 at 9:16am

Read my reply to that post.

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Permalink Reply by roger epperson on December 31, 2009 at 10:35am

No longer accepted by who?

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Permalink Reply by Josh Board on November 11, 2009 at 2:02am

I agree with most of what you guys have said.

All of us, that have purchased autographs, have been burned (some just may not know it yet). We all have something in our collection we bought, that is bogus.

I've had that problem with even the biggest, most well-known and well respected companies, too.

The thing I agree with most of all these posts, is checking the rest of their stock. I never knew I was such an expert, until Isaw some signed Zeppelin pieces, and knew the signatures were bogus just from the many real ones I've seen (and the Jimmy Page being the only one that looks real...the one easiest to forge, as it just looks like a couple of sloppy lightning bolts).

Also...and I hate to say this...if the price is too good to be true, it probably is.

I remember once seeing Heroes & Legends selling a signed poster from the White Album. All 4 Beatles. For only $3,000. I already had a Beatles piece, but at this price, I couldn't pass it up.

But the thing just seemed a little too perfect. Each Beatle, looked so real to me. And the thing sold. For days, I regretted not jumping on that. Until I realized...a huge poster, nicely signed, in different color ink by each Beatle...I didn't believe it. And, each signature, the same size.

One place mentioned above...Royal Arts or something...a friend showed me their catalogue a year ago, and half the stuff looks completely bogus to me. And no prices listed! My friend called and asked and the ysaid "We don't work that way. We don't give out prices." They also didn't want to give out info on how the stuff was acquired.

Run, don't walk!

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Permalink Reply by Josh Board on November 11, 2009 at 2:07am

Oh, one more thing. From day one, Heroes & Legends scared me. First and foremost...ALL THEIR PIECES looked amazing. I never thought anything looked fake. Where, most companies have pieces that look fake to me.

Well...what scared me was how owner Myron talked. It was like a used car salesmen. He acquired them all himself. Or knows people in the industry, etc etc etc.

Yet, one story on an expensive piece I bought, didn't check out. But he gave me a refund, so he's classy that way. But, do people purchase things they never find out are fake?

I got lucky. The famous musician he claimed to have acquired the piece from, I did an interview with. I asked him about it, and he had no clue about it.

And, I was talking with Steve about something the other day. Anyone can have a story on how they acquired the signed U2 album:

It was outside a concert at the Forum in L.A., March 2nd, 1990.

You Google the date, and see that they did play there. That's all the proof you need. But what you are doing is....TRYING to convince yourself, because you really want this piece. But ask yourself...maybe she was there. Hell, maybe she has the ticket stub, too. But, how easy is it to get an autograph at a stadium? Just asked me, or Roger Epperson. It's tough. I've been backstage at these things, and that can still be tough.

There are 40,000 fans there, or more. They all want autographs, too. It's not like Bono and Edge are just strolling around the lobby, or at the merchandise booth, signing for fans.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer Odom on February 3, 2010 at 11:45am

Do you have every signed item you've ever bought authenticated by someone? That could get REALLY expensive. Just curious.

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