Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Joe W. on December 14, 2018 at 7:43pm

You have found the right site!

Encapsulation means it's in a sealed enclosure.

Publicity photo is released to promote a person, movie, record, etc. Usually mass produced.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Kaminski on December 14, 2018 at 8:44pm

Although not a comprehensive list, RR Auction has a nice glossary of terms they use in their auctions and ones that are also often used hobby wide: https://www.rrauction.com/termsandabbr.cfm

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Permalink Reply by Paulrichards on December 14, 2018 at 9:46pm

Encapsulation means that the item is sealed in an outer cover such as Mylar that is reversible. It is a means of protecting the item from environmental damage.

i deal with historical items so publicity photos are not something I would deal with. I would describe them as a staged or posed photo as opposed to a candid photo of an individual.

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Permalink Reply by Brandon Robicheaux on December 15, 2018 at 1:19am

Thanks everybody I appreciate the help more than you know! The purpose of me starting to collect is to try to creat a history lesson for my two sons with every item. So for instance I love things like Nixon, Pete rose, ect bc they have great stories behind their name. I’m just starting out and obsessed trying to learn all I can. Essentially what I’m reading is encapsulated doesn’t mean anything as far as authentic and publicity photo is worth less bc of mass production correct? 

Any and all advice is welcome 

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Permalink Reply by Paulrichards on December 15, 2018 at 4:56am

Encapsulation and publicity photo are two terms that rarely go together in this field.

say I buy a George Washington signed letter or document. The seller may have already encapsulated an item like that due to its age, fragility, worth, and intrinsic importance.

none of those terms would likely apply to a publicity photo but they might apply to a portrait photo of say Lincoln, Grant, Robert E Lee, Mark Twain or the Wright Brothers. A publicity photo would be what you would receive if you wrote to a current congressman asking for a signed photo. In that case, the photo is publicity and the signature more often than not either machine or secretarily applied.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 15, 2018 at 10:40am

"...Encapsulation and publicity photo are two terms that rarely go together in this field...."

Perhaps they should not offer this service, but PSA/DNA have been authenticating, stickering and/or encapsulating "historic" photographs for some time. Here is one - misidentified as Titanic by a sports expert... New York's Chelsea Piers sits right out the window - it is sister Olympic in 1911 (window details also confirm this). Proof of this location can be seen below highlighted in green in a photo of New York's Chelsea Piers. I could not get the cert corrected, but not for lack of trying/writing/calling. A $500 press/publicity photo sells for $5000 or $10,000 or whatever it was just because of the cert. :(

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 15, 2018 at 10:07am

In the case of one TPA, the fact the item is "encapsulated" (as I see the term used - hard slab, not easily reversible but certainly protective), indicates the item is indeed authentic (according to the TPG anyway). This was just discussed because someone thought they were missing a certificate for a slabbed item which was not the case. I am not terribly familiar with thses companies as I do not rely at all on them and do not buy, sell or recommend stickered items especially - at worst these places are simply wrong at times, at near-best perhaps I would overpay for an item already maxed out in value. Besides, I prefer to do the work of the hobby myself - appear to ink to signing habits and all - it is enjoyable. I don't pay for something I can't "see" (authenticate) myself.

A publicity photo can be worth almost as much or more as an original - more if the original is a poor photo or lucky candid. Original candids of quality/skill, especially something like early stereo/panoramic images can than be a step higher still. Other times, such as a press photo of the Hindenberg disaster in 1937, a good candid would exceed a press photo - especially if the candid remains unpublished. But not all press photos have been published, so it is a case by case affair with much research required. Some are wire photos - another animal again. Subject and aesthetics are obviously important in any event.

I also collect and restore historic photographs and transparencies for museums/authors and collectors. The item below is from my own collection, a 9x14 construction/plating photographic print by Bedford Lemere, taken April 5th, 1906 and Reverse stamped "Swan Hunter" - the builders of this, the Cunard Mauretania, fastest liner on the ocean for 27 years. The print was developed in 1906. It is essentially a publicity shot of the day - used to record but also to promote. The small sepia photo beneath is an anonymous candid of this vessel leaving Wallsend for its delivery trip to Liverpool and Cunard at about 2:30 October 22, 1907. It is now restored by me and can be seen on permanent display alongside a bit of the 1st Class Lounge which I authenticated and sold to the Discovery Museum Segedunum Annex - about 1200 feet from where this event happened in Wallsend. Both are valuable - the large plating photo is superb but the source is the builder; while the candid is quite small the extreme and rare vantage combine with its being unique in a wonderful way. It is also very well composed, especially considering it was taken from a tripod on a small moving craft. It was unpublished until I used it in one of my research articles.

Now, in the case of a signed item - say a vintage Bowie, it is better to have an official promotional photograph ("publicity shot) from a press packet - like the 1979 Lodger pres kit. Those are true quality gelatin silver photographs, often on double weight paper and sometimes with pearl or matte finishes, taken by photographers such as Gorman or Mick Rock etc. These are far more desirable, to most seasoned collectors, than the same signature on some knock-off unlicensed unofficial copy print (usually of much lower quality). I show one I recently sold below - a 1979 8x10 promotional by Greg Gorman signed boldly with blue steel tipped pen in 1980 by David Bowie. You can read an article/blog post about this autograph and its qualities at davidbowieautograph.com.

I have an ongoing thread, written to quantify qualities, that discusses many of these terms, like "placement" and "contrast" and much more, in context with examples and images etc. Although created for a different purpose, it might well be of use to you. Link below:

NEWLY UPDATED 5.19.18 REWRITE Some of the Qualities of an Autograph... 

Below is a an "encapsulated" item as I see the term used (slabbed) - unfortunately the signature is a poor forgery.

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Permalink Reply by Paulrichards on December 15, 2018 at 11:22am

I think our friend starting the thread was talking more about the Bowie image which you describe as with forged signature. To me this is a publicity photo image whereas the one smoking a cigarette looks candid. I would not place much value to the Bowie with forged signature. If the signature was good, then I would attach the value to the signature not the image. On the other Bowie photograph of him smoking, naturally the attachment of an authentic image and inscription increases the value of the piece, but in my mind there would be value in the image as a stand alone.

this is in contrast to the ship and pier images which are antique and therefore would command value on that basis alone. When I use the word historic, quotation marks are not necessary because the caliber of the items encapsulated (items signed by founding fathers, eighteenth century newspapers or pamphlets are historic on their face.

to my knowledge, hard plastic is not acid free so any item ending up in hard plastic in my collection is first encapsulated or place in a Mylar sleeve 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 15, 2018 at 11:43am

Hello Paul,

The Bowie's are both promotional. The onstage shot (the LP cover image from his second live album) would be candid in pose, but the Gorman is clearly staged. Of course, the forged signature would be of no value and the photo is likely a copy print anyway so of no value. And yes, both, if original, have established value without signatures -  I sell them. Historic items are not in my opinion limited to the 18th or any century - that was my point. Below is an original toned gelatin silver print on double weight matte paper by renown Hiroshima photographer/archivist Yuichiro Sasaki, taken August 1st, 1949 and developed in October 1949. As to the word encapsulation - that is the entombment in the hard slab, placing the item in the Mylar sleeve is a just part of the process. Something in a Mylar sleeve alone is not encapsulated. And I agree re hard plastic. It is good to discuss all of this, because some of these terms have different meanings to people collecting in different disciplines.

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Permalink Reply by Paulrichards on December 15, 2018 at 11:58am

Beautiful historic images. I did not mean to imply that antique/historical images were confined to any particular time in the past. Clearly images related to the Titanic, Hindenburg, and Hiroshima are historical/vintage images without the need for quotation marks.

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 15, 2018 at 12:05pm

Thank you very much, Paul - I just misunderstood you then. I might have been distracted by the large bearded guy in a red suit that just flew past my rooms on a blaring firetruck! :) I have befriended Brandon who started this thread - I am sure he'd appreciate hearing from you as well - obviously you also have specialty information he would benefit from. 

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Permalink Reply by Eric Keith Longo on December 15, 2018 at 11:57am

Oops! Fastest liner for 22 years, not 27! 

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