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Would love opinion on this 1927 Scorecard

I have done a personal research to validate this "Official Baseball Scorecard" printed by the B.F. Steinel Publishing Company displaying AL and NL game results for May 9,1927.  The back of the card is stamped "Property of Henry Radosta" who lived his entire life in the Racine County WI area from 1894-1973.  There is also a handwritten reference on the back of the card to a dance arrangement to be played in the key of "F" for the Fox Trot.  The few of these that I have tracked down in other collectons all seem to have reference to the "Fox Trot" as well, but only one other contains autos.  The autographs on the front of the card include "Babe" Ruth, Gehrig and seven other Hall of Famers all signed in pencil.

Have attached pics of key autos.  Any opinions about the autos would be helpful and greatly appreciated--Also any ideas about where I could look next to research the reference to the Fox Trot  would be really awesome as well.

Thanks a bunch and what a great site.

Tags: 1927, babe, baseball, gehrig, lou, official, ruth, scorecard

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 17, 2011 at 11:30am

Hi LM,

What an interesting scorecard!

I reduced your Ruth and Gehrig images to 1200 pixels wide (click to see full size) and saved them as medium-high JPGs, which brings them from 3.6 megs to about 150K each...they'll download much faster that way, especially for people on mobile devices. 

Permalink Reply by LM on December 18, 2011 at 10:46am

Thanks Steve--first for reducig the pixels for faster loading and second for the opinion....I guess I did get what I asked for, Huh  LOL

I guess beyond being "interesting", does anyone have any opinion about whether you think these autos presented on the scorecard are genuine?  I am long and far away from being an expert on this topic, but I think I was pretty thorough in doing my research, homework, and my untrained "eyeball" comparisons to genuine archival signature (both on this site and others recommended here). I plan on sending it in to PSA but am tapped out at this moment in time thought I would toss it around here to see what y'all are thinking.

Thanks again...and I really am enjoying browsing the different cats and links here...everyone involved should be proud of what has been accomplished in creating this site--well done  

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 11:04am

Hey, LM...I wasn't teasing you. My opinion isn't meaningful on these. I'm only good at detecting obvious forgeries of Ruth and Gehrig, and if these aren't real, they certainly aren't obvious fakes to me.

But OK...I'll tell you what I think: I think the Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig are genuine.

Why don't you go to MEMBERS, look up Richard Simon and Larry Rosenbaum, and leave comments on their pages asking them to pipe in? Their opinions you can count on.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 18, 2011 at 11:54am

Steve, I saw this piece in another auction from November, and it had images of more of the signatures.  the Ruth and Gehrig do look good, as do most of them.  Something about the slant in the Hornsby bothers me.  The G in Roger slants differently than the ones I have seen, but that doesnt necessarily mean its bad.  

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 12:22pm

Where did you see it Terrier? Got a link? LM can get a quick opinion from PSA and JSA as long as it's still up as far as I know.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 18, 2011 at 1:49pm

Steve, here is the link:

http://www.auctionflex.com/showlot.ap?co=1&weid=0&weiid=747...

note is has a different year, but its the same score card.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 2:05pm

Terrier...thank you! Well I bet I'm going to end up being wrong on the Ruth and Gehrig here. Now that I can see the entire piece, I'll have a feeling they're all bad. Now I understand why the piece LM uploaded had ACE certification.

LM, why don't you have PSA/DNA do a quick opinion from the link? It'll cost you $10.

Permalink Reply by terrier8HOF on December 18, 2011 at 2:20pm

great idea!  I have to say that the Hornsby really bothers me.  If these are forgeries, I have seen a lot worse, but they really messed up this one, in my opinion.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 11:07am

BTW, if it's up for auction somewhere, PSA/DNA offers quick opinions for $7.50 listings on eBay and $10 off-eBay. But they have to be auction lots. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 11:16am

Would you mind sharing your research on these scorecards? The sports guys may know all about them but I don't. It would be interesting to see the others, find out where you found them, what they said about them, etc. 

Permalink Reply by LM on December 18, 2011 at 11:59am

First thanks for all the comments.

Second, I don't mind sharing at all...I had to start with the previous owner as stamped on the back "Henry Radosta"  I have all the research compiled in a folder of "Microsoft's One Note", but I don't want to get into "Copyright" infringement violations or anything, so what I can do is post links that you can click on to see what I have found and other scorecards that are either up for auction or in others collections, as well as genealogical links for historical research.  To say the least it has been a truly informative adventure

 

If the hyperlinks don't work (because I am not sure if I inserted correctly, I have uploaded the file I created in "One Note" and saved it as an .mht file that has the majority of photos and information in that file 

 

1)

Wisconsin State Deaths:1959-79

http://www.vitalsearch-ca.com

Screen clipping taken: 12/9/2011, 1

Notes on page "Radosta, Henry (research file)"

2)

Milwaukee County (Greenfield) Polish National - Chapel Hill Cemetery
Tombstone Photos
************************************************
These photos were generously taken and contributed by Larry and Linda
Kopet

Please note that these generous contributions do not necessarily
depict all tombstone photographs for a given cemetery.
************************************************
Copyright.  All rights reserved.
http://www.usgwarchives.org/copyright.htm
http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/
************************************************
The index page for these tombstone photos is located at:
http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/milwaukee-greenfield-polish...
http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/milwaukee-greenfield-polish...

a href="http://files.usgwarchives.org/wi/milwaukee/cemeteries/photo-indexes/greenfield-polishnatl-chapelhill.txt">http://files.usgwarchives.org/wi/milwaukee/cemeteries/photo-indexes...>

 a href="http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/milwaukee-greenfield-polishnatl-chapelhill02.html">http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/milwaukee-greenfield-polish...>

 a href="http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/images/milwaukee/greenfield-polishnatl-chapelhill/radostahenryjand.jpg">http://www.usgwarchives.org/wi/cemetery/images/milwaukee/greenfield...>

 3)

http://books.google.com/books?id=8q3nrfVXC2MC&pg=PA59&lpg=P...

The American Association Milwaukee ... - Rex Hamann, Bob Koehler - Google Books

Screen clipping taken: 12/10/2011, 12:22 AM

 

 4)

 

Official Baseball Score Card September 11 1929 | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350392838690+

Screen clipping taken: 12/11/2011, 11:34 AM

 

 

Official Baseball Score Card September 11 1929 | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350392838690+

Screen clipping taken: 12/11/2011, 11:35 AM

 

Official Baseball Score Card September 11 1929 | eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350392838690+

Screen clipping taken: 12/11/2011, 11:38 AM

 

 

 5)

http://ocs.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ContactCS&ref=1&topicr...

Screen clipping taken: 12/15/2011, 12:27 PM

 

thanks again lm

 

 

 

Attachments: No photo uploads here
Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on December 18, 2011 at 12:14pm

What do you think of the Babe Ruth autographs on these 1935 Silver Certificates?

The top Ruth looks pretty good, doesn't it? I certainly couldn't tell for sure that it's bad...could you?

But it is--as is the one under it. It was discussed on www.Net54baseball.com, which, BTW, is the top and most established baseball discussion forum. 

Here's the link to the thread [corrected link]: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=140532

It turns out that both Ruths are fake beyond a shadow of a doubt, because they're signed on 1935 Series G $1 Silver Certificates, signed by Secretary of the Treasury C. Douglas Dillon.

The problem is that Dillon was appointed in 1961by JFK. Babe Ruth died in 1948.

That didn't stop Autograph Certification Experts (ACE) from certifying a pile of them as genuine. They either didn't check, didn't care...or both. Judging from the high percentage of autograph certified by ACE that are commonly considered forgeries, I assume it's both.

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