Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Steve Cyrkin, Admin on August 28, 2012 at 10:18am

You can send Cathy to this and the other discussion on the Commissos, and she can contact me directly at editor@autographmagazine.com.

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 28, 2012 at 8:44pm

Cathy
Please refer to this site and post.
http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/your-help-needed-ple...
Also this site and posts.
http://acaf-forum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21&p=69#p69

I think that is unfair for your organization to ignore these claims and continue to stand my some dodgy certificates without investigating the strong claims against your "vendors"
It is a federal offense to send fraudulent items through the Australian postal service, as well as an offense to sell fraudulent items.

I believe that you have not shown due diligence in authenticating items that are clearly fake... one particular photograph that I purchased was still sticky from being recently processed, yet the person who supposedly signed it died in 2008!
If forensic analysis is required, then that evidence will be taken to the authorities, and not presented to your organisation as I believe you are being deliberately evasive. I will begin the process of writing to all of the artists that are being forged, gathering expert testimony and organising forensic testing of your items that I have purchased, some still in the plastic wrap that they came in and are perfect for fingerprint analysis, the age of the photographs will also be easily detected.
should these prove to be fake items, which seems to be certain, then the costs of these tests will form part of a claim, and if need be, a class action from all victims that I can contact.

David Gilmour has not signed autographs, other than for charity, for several years, yet you seem to have a never ending supply of his "not even close" autographs, and all selling for way under market value of authentic Gilmour autographs... smell a rat yet?

You have been contacted by several members of Autograph Magazine, and Steve Cyrkin, The editor of the site, has given me permission to pass on his contact details to you so you can discuss these claims with an industry expert, and others.
you need to show due diligence to these claims and investigate thoroughly, as these warnings will be part of a case to stop this blatant fraud that is being committed on and industrial scale.
Graysonline reputation is firmy at stake here, and you need to act accordingly. Australian and international investigative journalists will be contacted in mass, and the costs of bringing this fraud to an end will be mittigated by the force of the industries that I will bring together. You can contact Steve Cyrkin on this email address, here is Steve's reply to my post.

You can send Cathy to this and the other discussion on the Commissos, and she can contact me directly at editor@autographmagazine.com.

ACAF has also been contacted and I await their reply, but they have this industrial scale fraud firmly in their sights as well... this is very serious business, and you need to respond accordingly.

Paul Baker.

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Permalink Reply by Frankie Figgs on August 29, 2012 at 4:28am

tha's an awesome letter Paul, I doubt you will get a reply to be honest but we are all behind you here and , i for one, will do whatever I can to help support this one. It is one thing to sell fakes but it is another thing to have the assistance of an auction house like graysonline to help move them. It is a conspiracy of epic proportion and something needs to be done.  

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 29, 2012 at 4:55am

I think they have a legal obligation to respond. I am a customer and I am registering a serious complaint. I have fought many campaigns as a site convener for the 3 Unions at the Argyle Diamond mine, and as an organiser with the metal workers union in Western Australia (AMWU).  I know how to campaign, I know how to be patient and I know these things can take years to unravel... but unravel it we will.

I am fairly noobish when it comes to this subject, and really more a Pink Floyd fan than an autograph collector, but I am fast being drawn in, and learning pretty quickly!

I am a victim, I live in Australia, and have several items that are still sealed in the plastic wrap that they were sent in. I thought it was quite suspicious when a photograph, supposedly signed by Richard Wright of Pink Floyd, was still sticky from being recently processed! pretty unusual considering he died in September 2008!

I have joined this website to summon the forces of good to pit myself against the forces of evil that seem to be committing fraud on a massive scale... It has cost me a little bit of cash, but my motives are not financial... I will cop the losses but will do whatever I can to prevent and stop this never ending stream of seemingly forged autographs... I think this has gone on for several years and
would probably be into the millions of dollars ripped from naive people such as me

Not to worry, I am not ashamed of being found foolish, but my wrath and organizational skills can be persistent and tenacious... as Rio Tinto and Mercer Campbell Cook and Knight found out when I fought and won a case against two of the richest and largest organizations in the world, and cost them well over $140 000 000.00 (yup one hundred and forty million dollars plus) in superannuation payments to their employees...PLUS fines, (as I had pointed out the laws and taxation rulings that they chose to ignore).
Dare I say, my employment prospects with this mining Giant are Nil... I was the site Union Convener and Chairman of the Argyle Diamond Mine employees superannuation fund... I was made redundant shortly after winning the case, and paid some good cash to @#%$ off and never come back... lol one of my proudest moments!

So I would like to get this case moving, but will need the assistance of experts that share the desire to stop this fraud, Steve Cyrkin from Autograph Magazine has told me to refer them to him, but a host of expert opinions may be needed... My complaints will be registered with the Federal Police, as they are using Australia Post to transport probable forged items... so here we go, slow and steady and always ready for the long fight...  :)   God help them

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Permalink Reply by Paul Baker on August 31, 2012 at 6:43am

Hi Paul,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

I have reviewed all the details you have supplied in your recent emails and unfortunately, there is not sufficient proof for us to assist you with this matter.

 

We have supplied the certificates of authenticity to support our claim that the items are authentic and you have not been able to supply proof that would adequately show that the items are not authentic. By way of proof we would accept for review an attested statement or report. Once we have this proof we can look further in to this matter but without it we need to go with the vendor as they have supplied the certificate of authenticity.      

 

We provided the certificate of authenticity on the lot description that was visible before you placed your bid so that you could have done your research and been satisfied with the authenticity before placing bids on the items.

 

At this point we cannot offer you a refund on any of the items that you have purchased but if you can supply the proof requested above we can review this matter.

 

If you have any further enquiries, please don't hesitate to contact us again.

 

Regards

Cathy
Grays Customer Service

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Permalink Reply by Frankie Figgs on August 28, 2012 at 6:29pm

Hi Paul, good job man.. I posed as a potential Aussie buyer and asked about authenticity and this is what I got back when I pressed them ( mind you I asked for PROOF of authenticity over a week ago ) :  

After further escalation of this case as per your request Grays position on this matter is that we a unable to assist and will also be unable to accept any evidence from anyone other than the person alleged to have signed the item.

 

Grays act as an agent for the vendor and they stand by the certificate of authenticity that was provided on the online description.

 

We will also be unable to enter into any further correspondence on this matter.

 

 

Kind regards

WWWWWHHHHAAAAATTTTTTT !!!! so you need the celebrity to say they did not sign the item as proof now that the item is forged?????? 

Graysonline are set to lose a truck load of cash if they admit liability because they SOLD the item, they do NOT get an independent authenticator like they should and they are really holding on for dear life that perhaps something that was sold is real.... This goes back now for at least 5 years with 50+ items per auction and up to 2 auctions a week at a minimum of $9 per item that is a yearly total of $50K per year over 5 years .... and that is at a minimum... so you see, graysonline will hold fast    

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Permalink Reply by Dan Gregory on August 21, 2012 at 11:25pm

Great stuff guys. Being in New Zealand it's great to see when people take on the sites selling fakes in this part of the world.

We use Trade Me here in NZ and they allow fakes to be sold all the time so well done for taking on these 3 Aussie fakes.

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Permalink Reply by Frankie Figgs on August 23, 2012 at 10:44pm

Hey yall, a buddy of mine brought this youtube video to my attention. This is by far the BEST example of autograph FRAUD I have seen, validates everyones thinking here. Tell us all your thoughts 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9ofBryT9q4

 

This link blows any chance of authenticity out of the water when it comes to memorabilia provided by musiclegends.com.au or coolworldcollectables.com.au as sold to graysonline.com for their auctions. 

In addition to this i emailed graysonline.com asking about this particular piece of undeniable evidence and they said this: "we only act as an agent for the vendor and they stand by the certificate of authenticity that was provided in the online auction" So in reality if I wanted to sell my "REAL" Jimmi Hendrix guitar signed by him in 2012 all I would need to do is provide my own COA and we are good to roll - it's real because I say its real....  

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Permalink Reply by Mick Taylor on August 28, 2012 at 2:55am

Great video. You only get more conclusive proof than that if you actually catch them doing it!!

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Permalink Reply by Michael T on August 28, 2012 at 9:08pm

That Pink autograph is an obvious forgery.

However, I want to remind everyone that a new sharpie will dig into a photo when you sign a photo with it and if you erase the signature it will leave behind exactly what is shown in that video. That is quite common. I see it all the time when I remove inscriptions from photos signed with improperly prepped sharpies or vis' or whatever.

I highly doubt there was any 'tracing' or the signature would look like it was drawn slowly and is quite obvious to the trained eye. I suspect the forger just quickly signed it and might have pulled a new sharpie out of a box to sign it.

You could easily test this yourself on a blank photo. Just have a photo of yourself printed at your local photo lab and sign it. Then remove the ink and you will see what I mean. Be sure to use a new sharpie and press down a bit.

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Permalink Reply by Frankie Figgs on August 28, 2012 at 10:54pm

I must say that I have to completely disagree with you Michael. 

Take a closer look at the fake autograph:

This signature does not look "quickly" swiped on as you have stated and no matter how hard i try I cannot replicate this - new sharpie and all. In fact there are no trace indicators that would suggest a quick scribble on, the consistency of the lines indicate uniform pressure has been applied in turn indicating a slow draw.

There are  no  high or low points at all and the loops and pulls are way too uniform to suggest anything other than a slow application. There are no tail or drop offs at the ends of the lines that would indicate a "quick"scribble as you would expect to see if indeed the signature was quickly applied. The attempted heart at the top has "stop" marks at the tip before the line goes down into the drop of the letter "P" indicating the forger removed or stopped the pen before continuing. This signature has been applied using uniform pressure and speed right the way through as is evident in the thickness of the lines and there are no jump off or line breaks as you would expect to see with a quick throw up autograph. I strongly disagree with your findings and I do believe that the marks underneath are tracing lines because I have seen them before.  I am sorry but I cannot locate anything in this zone that would indicate to me that the signature was quickly applied leading to these so called "sharpie" marks being made by just the sharpie itself.

Here is an authentic PINK autograph that will demonstrate what I have just stated.

   

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Permalink Reply by Michael T on August 29, 2012 at 12:36am

Feel free to disagree but I have seen it hundreds of times over the years of collecting in person and selling autographs as a dealer. I was just discussing this the other day with some of my fellow collectors. We have a special way to prepare our sharpies to lesson this effect.

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